gatnerd

Military Guns and Ammunition

Hosted by gatnerd

This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

  • 3320
    MEMBERS
  • 188344
    MESSAGES
  • 8
    POSTS TODAY

Discussions

NGSW Phase 2 Consolidation and info   Small Arms <20mm

Started 30/8/19 by gatnerd; 446554 views.
poliorcetes

From: poliorcetes

20/10/21

Once a position at x,z is declared, then the accelerometers detect motion in that two axis and compensate it until certain point. It's close to a "virtual monopod", like this

Arcabucero - Wikipedia, la enciclopedia libre

but without a stick. Obviously it blocks the weapon inside a xz perimeter, not exactly to a point. But if it works it could be really something in certain circumstances... coupled with the FCS, for instance

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

21/10/21

The idea with the stabilizer is that it’s a motion isolator.

Normal rifle, your left hand grips the handguard. If your hand/arm trembles, then the muzzle moves as well.

With the stabilizer, you hold that thing. Your arm trembles, the bottom of the device moves, but the motion is isolated, and so the muzzle does not shift off target.

The increase in hit probability is due to making it easier to stay on target when firing from field positions. I imagine the level of improvement is like the difference between firing standing vs firing standing with the rifle hanguard resting on a wall. 

stancrist

From: stancrist

21/10/21

I understand what it is supposed to do.

I just don't get how it can possibly do it.

But, that is not important.  Thanks, guys.

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

21/10/21

More info on the 'Aim Control Enhancer' as this is known:

And our whole earlier discussion of it:

http://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages/7812/1

It is conceptually similar, but simplified, to the stabilization systems / movement isolators used in tank guns: 

How Can a Glass of Beer Demonstrate the Quality of a Tank?

A glass of beer and a gun. Ukrainian defense companies are publishing videos demonstrating the high quality of their armored vehicles with original tests._Su...

smg762

From: smg762

21/10/21

Can tanks really hit a 1 or 2 mile target while moving briskly? Or do they tend to have to stand still

poliorcetes

From: poliorcetes

21/10/21

AFAIU the stabilizer takes an XZ position when it is activated. It measures the unvoluntary movements and try to compensate them in real time in order to maintain the muzzle pointing as close as possible to that orientation. It has obvious movement limitations, but I don't identify any reason that would preclude it to work in real time and in a close approximation to the ideal orientation

For instance, if you have a small drone and you activate autopilot, if for any reason the drone points to other direction it will correct ASAP. if the drone is a quadrotor, correction is almost real time because of motor correction.

roguetechie

From: roguetechie

21/10/21

Lol yes you're missing something Stan.

The guy behind that isolator actually posted here I think it's own thread.

His magic box doohickey uses a proprietary algorithm to essentially take human involuntary motion out of the picture when aiming by holding your gun on target or close to on target.

Im probably making a bloody hash of explaining it but it does work and iirc came out of the Talos project originally and is now grafted onto ngsw in some way.

roguetechie

From: roguetechie

21/10/21

Yeah the closest thing I can think of to this for another object is camera gimbals. It works kinda like those but compressed into a very small form factor that while a bit more limited in it's ability to compensate should be enough to help.

Also since it's acting on the third point of contact between the operator and the rifle with the longest moment arm it can in effect compensate for much greater movements with a much smaller total xyz displacement.

roguetechie

From: roguetechie

21/10/21

They can fire at pretty extended ranges on the move at a pretty decent speed over relatively decent terrain yes.

Effectively what limits this is the sampling rate of your instrumentation and the speed/precision of your actuators. 

If you're moving too fast over too rough of ground and firing at too small of a target this can obviously fail but, assuming that you're not doing any of those things yes they can do this.

This is also why things like exact traverse and elevation rates and etc for tanks are strictly controlled information because assuming you had all the right data it would be relatively trivial to figure out the limits of a given tank's abilities to do this 

RovingPedant

From: RovingPedant

21/10/21

smg762 said...

Can tanks really hit a 1 or 2 mile target while moving briskly? Or do they tend to have to stand still

Depends on the terrain and the target, but these days if the terrain and speed is comfortable for the crew, then the gunnery will be decent. It would still be better from stationary though.

TOP