gatnerd

Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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NGSW Phase 2 Consolidation and info   Small Arms <20mm

Started 30/8/19 by gatnerd; 553299 views.
stancrist

From: stancrist

23/10/21

I agree completely.  It doesn't really matter if I don't comprehend how it works.

I'd like to try it, too.  As badly as my hands shake, I would be the ultimate tester.  grin

RovingPedant

From: RovingPedant

23/10/21

nincomp said...

Not necessarily.  A very fast round just allows you to miss at a higher velocity if your aim is not perfect when you pull the trigger.

It does reduce the impact of errors in ranging, windage and target movement.

smg762

From: smg762

23/10/21

Looking at the final version of textrons round, im sure it could take a SLAP, but this would be a telescoped SLAP....still using a booster charge to push the sabot in the bore. Never been done before

If textrons layout was applied to the .50 do you think it would reduce size, enough to allow more ammo...or does the increased width ruin things

  • Edited 23 October 2021 8:50  by  smg762
Mr. T (MrT4)

From: Mr. T (MrT4)

23/10/21

40y later it seems we are not much further.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKBJp9Ea8jg

EmericD

From: EmericD

23/10/21

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

40y later it seems we are not much further.

I would say quite the contrary... we are very far from "we need a rifle for engaging targets at close range... let's say 100-150 m... there are sights on the gun but they will not be used".

Guardsman26

From: Guardsman26

24/10/21

Anyone else heard rumours that only the SIG 6.8x51 mm rifle and automatic rifle are left in the US Army's NGSW competition? Separately, I've heard that US SOCOM is resuming its testing of 6.5x49 mm Creedmoor in both AR and LMG platforms.  

smg762

From: smg762

24/10/21

I dont understand sigs logic with the 13 inch barrel. The objective was to give a 600-700m range, and those barrels cant be very intuitive or 'pointable' and long range

poliorcetes

From: poliorcetes

24/10/21

If you think that a crazy fast round would preclude the needing of "fancy optics" is because you haven't read or either understand the role of present and near future FCS of NGWS program

poliorcetes

From: poliorcetes

24/10/21

What would have been the reason Textron would have lost the competition? I mean, TV is more or less obvious at this point with GD out, but at the same time SiG is making serious efforts in making their civilian version visible. SiG's candidate is the heaviest at cartridge level, the least innovative and it has not any serious growth capabilities. Finally, SiG bimetal case is going to be more expensive than conventional ones.

I mean, if AAI / Textron CT bid would have an actual deal breaker, it should have been known time ago. It would have even precluded its participation and even the entire program. I mean, it would have been a total disconnection between LSAT, NGAD and NGSW that would be really difficult to explain

EmericD

From: EmericD

25/10/21

poliorcetes said:

What would have been the reason Textron would have lost the competition?

NGSW is very similar to ACR, it seems to revolve around risk mitigation.

During the ACR program, you had:

- Colt proposing a derivative of the M16, firing 5.56 mm duplex ammo and regular M855, technically that's a ~0% risk solution,

- AAI proposing a conventional rifle firing a discarding sabot flechette, from a regular 5.56 mm brass case, that's your ~25% risk solution,

- Steyr proposing an unconventional rifle (push-thru) firing a discarding sabot flechette from a plastic case, that's your 50% risk solution,

- HK proposing a very unconventional rifle firing a full caliber bullet, but from a caseless round, that's your 75% risk solution. (100% risk would be a flechette from a caseless round).

For NGSW, you have similar structure, with SIG proposing a "low risk" option, GD proposing the "intermediate version" and Textron the highest possible risk level, but also the highest reward.

That's a good way to run a technical program, avoiding to end with a "no winner" configuration, and avoiding Textron to charge a very high bill for their products.

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