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Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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NGSW Phase 2 Consolidation and info   Small Arms <20mm

Started 30/8/19 by gatnerd; 323445 views.
stancrist

From: stancrist

25-Oct

poliorcetes said:

What would have been the reason Textron would have lost the competition? I mean, TV is more or less obvious at this point with GD out, but at the same time SiG is making serious efforts in making their civilian version visible. SiG's candidate is the heaviest at cartridge level, the least innovative and it has not any serious growth capabilities. Finally, SiG bimetal case is going to be more expensive than conventional ones. I mean, if AAI / Textron CT bid would have an actual deal breaker, it should have been known time ago. It would have even precluded its participation and even the entire program. I mean, it would have been a total disconnection between LSAT, NGAD and NGSW that would be really difficult to explain

Gr1ff1th

From: Gr1ff1th

25-Oct

DISCLAIMER : This is unverified reddit hearsay from a supposed "USAMU Tester", Along with some cross referencing with earlier forum discussion on this topic + the original RFP accuracy standards

However this could provide a plausible explanation for a possible GD/Textron Drop out

Regarding this topic it had been discussed earlier on this forum about a possible drop in accuracy with both TV Neckless and Textron CT type cartridges
In this discussion with EmericD :http://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages/7908/36

When you combine this with the original RFP calling for a certain standard of accuracy

All this together could present a plausible explanation, if indeed CT and TV neckless are inherently 3-4 MOA systems, wheras the goals are 1.7~ MOA accuracy

Interested to hear this forums take on this

smg762

From: smg762

25-Oct

Textron claimed their round was more accurate than normal ammo

Gr1ff1th

From: Gr1ff1th

25-Oct

Yes, and I'm inclined to believe Textron over a random redditor claiming  to be a USAMU tester, if he was he'd surely be under an NDA, in addition to that he doesn't seem to be able to get even the basics of the ammo correct either, confusing GD/TV's ammo with SIG's for example, however we cannot ignore the fact that only the SIG entry was at AUSA this year, whereas for the last 3 years all 3 have been present
 
 

roguetechie

From: roguetechie

25-Oct

Right. That would make the exact opposite of sense unless emeric saw significant accuracy dropoff with his neckless brass cases.

Also the last person we had "come out of USAMU" gifted us with 6.8 spc.

So the track record here appears to side towards somebody trying to act cool on the internet.

Though it's genuinely not inconceivable that somehow Textron and TV screwed up that bad.

poliorcetes

From: poliorcetes

25-Oct

But how CT obtained Maturity level 9 at LSAT program?

Now CT seems to appear from nowhere in 2018 and we are talking about a design that was evolving during 20 years, maybe even more. After so many time and testing, I find really hard to believe that such a serious problem didn't stop the development before.

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

25-Oct

“however we cannot ignore the fact that only the SIG entry was at AUSA this year, whereas for the last 3 years all 3 have been present“

Conversely, SIG is not attending SHOT Show this year.

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2021/10/11/sig-sauer-shot-show-2022/amp/

Gr1ff1th

From: Gr1ff1th

25-Oct

If you read his comment he did see an accuracy drop off, he was shooting 3-4 MOA, so it's not out of the question that it's too inaccurate for the stringent requirements set for NGSW, 

"Also the last person we had "come out of USAMU" gifted us with 6.8 SPC", this is great quote 

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

26-Oct

His comments describe the LSAT/CT ammo as a 'black plastic vienna sausage.' 

Whats interesting is that in the last few years, all of the LSAT/CT ammo Textron has displayed has been a transparent amber color.

So its possible his testing (if it happened) was years ago. His description of the other polymer case he tested as "polymer sidewalls with brass base" is also dated.

Who knows?

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

26-Oct

In terms of our almost certainly dead True Velocity entrant.

We have one of our clearest photos to date of the RM277, as well as the chance that Guns&Ammo has pressure tested and evaluated the weapon. I'll be on the lookout for this issue.

And heres a photo of the 6.8TV being fired from the M134 Minigun. With its 22" barrel velocity would be over 3000fps. Ah, what could have been...

And another video of them showing off the barrel swap M240 capability for conversion.

6.8 TVC is the FUTURE for the American Warfighter | Next Generation Squad Weapons

True Velocity's 6.8TVC cartridge achieves enhanced ballistic performance over traditional 7.62x51mm while also maintaining safe chamber pressures and because...

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