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Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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NGSW Phase 2 Consolidation and info   Small Arms <20mm

Started 30/8/19 by gatnerd; 453644 views.
Gr1ff1th

From: Gr1ff1th

18/11/21

"When we approached Textron for comment on the possibility that Textron and their weapons were no longer part of the NGSW program Betania Magalhaes, Textron’s Director of Corporate Communications, said":

"Textron Systems has completed its scope of work for the prototype phase and have delivered all our weapons for government testing; we are closely tracking the Army’s next steps."

They still haven't confirmed they're out, it sounds like they're waiting on an Army decision 

  • Edited 18 November 2021 22:28  by  Gr1ff1th
gatnerd

From: gatnerd

18/11/21

Gr1ff1th said:

They still haven't confirmed they're out, it sounds like they're waiting on an Army decision

Its still hard for me to fathom that they would be out, given that their tech seems to be the genesis for much of the NGSW program...

BruhMomento

From: BruhMomento

19/11/21

now I think sig has a chance to win because the army may want stuff from one distributor since sig already bagged the m17/m18 and the mg-338 contracts. But idk I'm no expert

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

19/11/21

BruhMomento said:

now I think sig has a chance to win because the army may want stuff from one distributor since sig already bagged the m17/m18 and the mg-338 contracts. But idk I'm no expert

I think almost all of us were betting on Textron - which now may have dropped out - so I'd say none of us are experts at this point. 

SIG does have a number of advantages:

-Already provides guns to US Mil (as you mentioned)

-SIG Spear shares M4/AR ergonomics and familiarity 

-LMG is extremely light, reportedly low recoil 

-SIG's case design is probably the lowest risk, and can also be loaded on existing ammo loading machines 

Its main downsides are

-Heaviest ammo choice 

-Metallic case does not reduce weapon heating compared to polymer 

-SIG's civilian weapons can have somewhat spotty QC, and its MHS pistol was not without some teething issues 

Overall I wouldn't bet against them, especially if Textron is out. 

Gr1ff1th

From: Gr1ff1th

19/11/21

Just a reminder that the contract stipulates that the Army can take it's pick of vendors products, both weapons and ammo, so it's entirely possible they can choose a combination of SIG guns and TV ammo, the contract also leaves open the possibility of the adoption of the TV Rifle, and then later adopting the future Lonestar LWMMG, there is also the possibility (if Textron isn't out) of adopting just the Textron NGSW-AR, which theoretically was ready to go at the end of LSAT, and then later adopting an improved/fixed NGSW-R.

Regardless of that, I still don't think Textron is out, especially not after Textron themselves says they're not, or at least they haven't voluntarily, which is contrary to the rumors of them "dropping out".

As an aside, If TV had developed a conventional layout rifle, and a lightweight machine gun (which Lonestar has started work on), firing 80KSPI ammo then they'd probably have it in the bag, even versus Textron.

The strongest competitor to CT ammo in NGSW has always been TV-Style cases, which give you damn near most of the weight savings, except with compatibility with existing actions and guns, I can't help but imagine if polymer ammo was widely fielded in the past, that LSAT/CT small arms probably would never have existed, seeing as your relative savings are so much lower when competing against composite polymer ammo vs brass that there wouldn't have been enough of a need to justify the development cost.

roguetechie

From: roguetechie

19/11/21

No sig has not won the mg338 contract at all...

And shit like this is why many of us dislike sig strongly because of their deceptive ass marketing department.

stancrist

From: stancrist

19/11/21

Gr1ff1th said:

the contract also leaves open the possibility of the adoption of the TV Rifle, and then later adopting the future Lonestar LWMMG

That seems unlikely.  One intent of NGSW is a common caliber for squad weapons.

Having a mix of 6.8mm rifles and .338 machine guns would be contrary to that goal.

And it's one thing to carry a .338 MG with a 20-round starter belt for a promo video.

      Lightweight Medium Machine Gun (LWMMG) - .338NM Cartridge. - YouTube

But, is a .338 machine gun truly practical for automatic riflemen in actual combat?

  • Edited 19 November 2021 17:04  by  stancrist
gearmrk

From: gearmrk

19/11/21

SIG will be adopted as an interim solution until CT matures.  ??

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