Military Guns and Ammunition

Hosted by gatnerd

This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

  • 3337
  • 189773
  • 7


NGSW Phase 2 Consolidation and info   Small Arms <20mm

Started 30/8/19 by gatnerd; 502148 views.

From: stancrist


gatnerd said:

       stancrist said: if only because of the reduction in muzzle velocity using ammo developed for 22" barrels in weapons with 13" and 16" barrels

Current RM277 is a 19" barrel for 3000fps, so not much of a stretch to go from 16" to 19" for the LMG.

Current SIG NGSW-AR has a 16" barrel (not 19").

Original GD NGSW-AR had a 22" barrel (not 19").

gatnerd said:

Especially if the shorter Brevis suppressor was used vs the longer sig suppressor to offset some of the length increase.

First you want SIG to convert their guns to fire a competitor's ammo, thereby reducing SIG's profits.

Now you want SIG to switch to a competitor's suppressor, which would further reduce SIG's profits.

These are completely unrealistic proposals.  There is no rational reason for SIG to willingly do either.


From: EmericD


gatnerd said:

Do you think the Army made the right call going with SIG, and that the accuracy issues would likely persist with the TV design?

The SIG round & offer were the "least risk" option, so it makes sense, but I would bet that this was not the way the US Army wanted the NGSW to go.

We should probably stop to write that there is "accuracy issues with the TV design".

What "we know" is that there was probably a mismatch between the XM1186 bullet, the 6.8 mm TVCM cartridge, and the RM-277 rifle. Fire the 6.8 mm TVCM cartridge loaded with a 135 gr SMK bullet in a bolt-action rifle, and you won't see "accuracy problems".

I just hope that TV will launch the 6.8 mm on the commercial market, allowing them to refine the design until it's OK for military application. With the exception of "spitzer" bullets, it seems that every small-arms evolution was first tested extensively in the civilian domain, before being adopted by military forces.


From: stancrist


EmericD said:

I just hope that TV will launch the 6.8 mm on the commercial market...

That seems to be the plan.  relaxed

True Velocity (


From: EmericD


Interesting to see Mr. Sal Fanelli in the video.


From: Apsyda


That was the plan back when they thought they had a good shot at winning the competition. Otherwise, TV is an ammo company rather than a gun company. And trying to sell a fairly mechanically complex bullpup design that lost its trial, is going to be a bother for them I think. At best a few ~$10k rifles are made for whomever is crazy enough to pay that much, and the gun vanishes into the air afterwards.


From: graylion


I wonder whether other nations will adopt it.


From: stancrist


Apsyda said:

That was the plan back when they thought they had a good shot at winning the competition.

That still is the plan.  That was posted by TV about a week ago. 

The only apparent difference is that the rifle's name was changed from Genesis to Amicus.

True Velocity Seizes Momentum in Global Adoption of Lightweight 6.8mm Round (

Apsyda said:

Otherwise, TV is an ammo company rather than a gun company.

TV bought LoneStar.  Which makes TV a gun company as well as an ammo company.


From: Gr1ff1th


Smokeless powder was the product of French army lab, it wasn't tested by civilians first, it was basically the NGSW of it's day except actually good


From: gatnerd


Current weight estimate:

SIG rifle = 8.4lbs

SIG Suppressor = 1.19lbs

NGSW Optic ~ 2.2lbs

Total = 11.79lbs

Cartridge weight estimated at 22g.

Lanncer 20rd mag = 6.4oz

Loaded 20rd mag = 1.37lbs

Loaded NGSW= 13.16lbs


From: roguetechie


It's not actually possible that TV's cases don't work. We've got more TV ammo out in the wild and being shot than we have of sig ammo.

It really is ok to just straight out say the army made an extremely stupid call here.

The world won't end, that's what happened, and all we can hope for now is that whoever in the army is afraid of muh plastic ammo gets fired or reassigned so the army can correct it's course in time.

I don't like saying any of this but this is the truth of the situation as it currently stands