gatnerd

Military Guns and Ammunition

Hosted by gatnerd

This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

  • 3350
    MEMBERS
  • 190108
    MESSAGES
  • 5
    POSTS TODAY

Discussions

NGSW Phase 2 Consolidation and info   Small Arms <20mm

Started 30/8/19 by gatnerd; 523118 views.
stancrist

From: stancrist

25-Apr

nincomp said:

To be honest, if no pics show up soon, I am tempted to buy a some, just so I can section it.   For what it is worth, the 6.8 TVC ammo case is made in two pieces, with the neck welded onto the body.

Well, it looks like you can save your hardly-earned smile money.  I just found a photo showing the two-piece construction.

stancrist

From: stancrist

25-Apr

EmericD said:

       stancrist said: If polymer cases need a greater thickness of material at the neck, how do you explain https://youtu.be/G1DCJsMKJb0?t=30 ?

The magic of the Internet. Now, take the 100,000 or about M240 in service in the US Army and try to duplicate the video, I'm pretty sure that the result will be much different.

Okay, if True Velocity is concealing a flaw in this product...

...perhaps there is also a significant flaw in this product?

EmericD

From: EmericD

25-Apr

stancrist said:

Okay, if True Velocity is concealing a flaw in this product...

I won't call that "a flaw".

The GAU-8 is using aluminium cases to save a lot of weight, even if everybody (including the designers) knows that in case of a burn thru, you are going to lose the gun.

Lead-free primers are less reliable than leaded primers, but people want to use them because you reduce lead emissions.

So, even if a composite case split a neck every one in a thousand rounds, there's a lot of scenarios where you could use them.

stancrist

From: stancrist

25-Apr

EmericD said:

I won't call that "a flaw".

The GAU-8 is using aluminium cases to save a lot of weight, even if everybody (including the designers) knows that in case of a burn thru, you are going to lose the gun.

How many GAU-8 guns have been lost to burn thru of the aluminum case?

EmericD said:

So, even if a composite case split a neck every one in a thousand rounds, there's a lot of scenarios where you could use them.

If the neck separates from a cartridge case every one in a thousand rounds, I think most soldiers would consider that a rather serious flaw.  I sure would.

And if the USAF lost a GAU-8 to case burn thru every 1000 rounds, it's a safe bet they'd consider it such a serious flaw they wouldn't use aluminum cases.

nincomp

From: nincomp

26-Apr

Thanks for finding those photos of the TV case.  I recall hearing a TV rep mentioning that they could optimize the powder column but was unsure if they had done so on their "normal" ammo.

nincomp

From: nincomp

26-Apr

EmericD said:

Instead of a tube that could produce feeding problems, make something like 3 or 4 petals following the bullet ogive, that could open to let the bullet pass.

It would be interesting if they could do something like that and allow the ogive to be recessed in that false "neck" section.   I had been thinking about that too.  It would allow existing cartridges like 5.56x45 or 7.62.51 to use bullets with longer ogives.  The trick would be to assure that the bullet stays supported and aligned with the bore and that the petals stay attached to the case.

stancrist

From: stancrist

26-Apr

You're welcome.  Glad I could help.

nincomp

From: nincomp

26-Apr

EmericD said:

Dimensions of the 6.8 mm GP according to the single picture available, probable error of 0.01" (1 pxl on the picture): BOAL: 1.41" Ogive: 0.825" Shank: 0.380" BT: 0.205" EDIT: those dimensions lead to a bullet mean density of 9.4 g/cm3, or a 120 gr bullet if the density is 8.4 g/cm3.

I have wondered if the NGSW trials actually used the bullet in the photo.  That is partly why I have been using the phrase "high-BC EPR-style bullet."  Do we know for certain that they used this particular bullet?

  • Edited 26 April 2022 2:03  by  nincomp
stancrist

From: stancrist

26-Apr

nincomp said:

I have wondered if the NGSW trials actually used the bullet in the photo.

I would think surrogate bullets were used in most testing:  https://youtu.be/5SGySgHP2wU?t=1

nincomp said:

Do we know for certain that they used this particular bullet?

Is there some reason to think this particular bullet is not the "government-provided" GP bullet?

Photo caption: 

Army’s 6.8mm GP Projectile compared to the Army’s current M80A1 EPR and the M855A1 EPR from an Army Futures Command event...  

Inside the Army's Quest for a Revolutionary New Bullet | Military.com

nincomp

From: nincomp

26-Apr

stancrist said:

Is there some reason to think this particular bullet is not the "government-provided" GP bullet?

I would just like verification.  It seems odd that another picture of the bullet has not appeared.  It also seems that the general consensus, at least on this forum, is that a steel-tipped EPR bullet should not be able to penetrate level 4 armor at distance, one of the stated goals of the program.

TOP