gatnerd

Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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NGSW Phase 2 Consolidation and info   Small Arms <20mm

Started 30/8/19 by gatnerd; 750705 views.
gatnerd

From: gatnerd

23/2/23

Great to info, thank you.

It definitely seems cold hammer forging plays an important role in barrel life.

The M4 won’t start keyholing at 6-7k rounds, but rather that’s when accuracy and velocity starts to decrease outside of spec.

Whats frustrating is this is largely due to the M4 TDP not being updated. 
 

FN had the contract for M4s for a while, and had to button rifle them, despite FN being known for their CHF production (they are a huge OEM for barrels in the US). This created a bizzare situation where all military M4s were button rifled, while all of FNs civilian AR15 barrels were CHF.

schnuersi

From: schnuersi

23/2/23

mpopenker said:

and IIRC the standard barrel steel there is the equivalent of the German 41CrMo4 steel

This steel is nothing special at all. Its a pretty common steel for tools and general mechanical construction. Quality bicycle parts are often made from it for example.

mpopenker

From: mpopenker

23/2/23

schnuersi said:

This steel is nothing special at all. Its a pretty common steel for tools and general mechanical construction

And who said it was something special?

JPeelen

From: JPeelen

23/2/23

Sorry, do not know the AUG barrel steel. All I know is that the StG77 barrels were cold forged on GFM machines, just like HK barrels were.   

schnuersi

From: schnuersi

23/2/23

mpopenker said:

And who said it was something special?

Nobody.
I am just wondering what the problem is if an industrial standart solution delivers the results you mentioned. To me it seems like a really effective approach cost to performance wise.

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

23/2/23

Came across this interesting slide on Twitter, showing SIG's hybrid 7.62 as an AP round:

https://twitter.com/2805662/status/1628607690430902272/photo/1

Notable aspects of the slide:

1. +500fps claimed (vs what? M80 or M80A1?) That could mean the round is going 3250-3500fps if the +500fps is true.

2. 12% lighter then conventional brass case design. Once again, this is worder vaguely - is that 12% case weight reduction, or 12% cartridge weight production?

3. Projectile is listed as 131gr, whereas the M80A1 is 135gr. Transcription error? New EPR design? Or is this a glimpse of the 7.62 ADVAP Tungsten projectile?

If this is indeed the ADVAP, a 131gr 7.62 suggests the 6.8 ADVAP could be lighter than the 135gr we've been using for our estimates. 

  • Edited 23 February 2023 19:29  by  gatnerd
stancrist

From: stancrist

23/2/23

gatnerd said:

Projectile is listed as 131gr, whereas the M80A1 is 135gr. Transcription error? New EPR design?

"The [M80A1] bullet measured 8.48 grams, or 130.87 grains."  Taking a Look Inside the Army's DEVASTATING New M80A1 7.62mm Round -The Firearm Blog

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

23/2/23

Ah thank you stan, I had forgotten the M80A1 was 130gr / transposed 135gr with all of the 135gr ngsw talk we've had.

So then almost certainly M80A1 is the projectile. Which means if +500fps (seems almost impossible) that would be going ~3500fps from a m240. 

stancrist

From: stancrist

23/2/23

Yeah, I am skeptical of their weight and velocity claims being versus M80A1.

Although the slide shows an M80A1 round, I'd bet they're comparing to M80.

Farmplinker

From: Farmplinker

24/2/23

How did they get their accuracy assessed? The standards for the US M4 barrel is 10 shots out of a barrel, in a barrel fixture, =< 4MOA. Did the Soviets use the same testing procedures, or something different?

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