Military Guns and Ammunition

Hosted by gatnerd

This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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NGSW Phase 2 Consolidation and info   Small Arms <20mm

Started 30/8/19 by gatnerd; 746363 views.

From: stancrist


Very interesting.  Thanks, Emeric.


From: gatnerd


stancrist said:

I can't help but wonder if it may be possible to have one caliber that combines the advantages of both SCHV and full-power ammo into a single "have your cake and eat it" round.

That was the very rationale for my "6mm CAKE" concept of an 85gr VLD @ 3000fps. Fragmentation range beyond 7.62x51, recoil equal or less then 7.62x39, with cartridge weight comparable to 5.56 Brass, all while keeping 30rd mags. 

Initially the idea was a 6mm HAGAR in Shell Shock or Polymer for the case. Thats just a slightly lengthened 6.8 SPC, so 30rd mags the same length as the LWRC Six8, just a bit longer COL (~2.4-2.5").

However with SIG's 80kpsi case technology, I wonder whether a 6x45mm (5.56 necked up to 6mm) at 80kpsi would be able to drive an 85gr @ 3000fps from a 16" barrel? 

(6x45 with 105gr VLD to show concept; 85gr EPR and SIG hybrid case would be the high pressure CAKE)

That would really keep everything pretty close to 5.56 weight and mag capacity. Just need a longer COL. 

  • Edited 02 March 2023 0:28  by  gatnerd

From: gatnerd


Very surprising development.

Steyr is showing a 7lb rifle capable of firing both 7.62 and 6.8x51:

The goal of the new Steyr DMR was to reach a combination of accuracy and lightweight design. To this end, Steyr’s new DMR is said to be a sub-MOA rifle that is capable of shooting .277 FURY/6.8x51mm, .308 Winchester, and 6.5 Creedmoor. The piston-driven system also features a reversible charging handle making the Steyr DMR much easier to adopt for both left and right-handed shooters. Steyr DMR doesn’t require a buffer tube to operate and therefore it features a folding stock, that is compatible with any off-the-shelf AR stock. The rifle can also be fired with the stock folded according to Steyr.

The rifle features four different gas settings for regular conditions, adverse conditions, gas-off, and then a silencer setting that is also meant to be used with subsonic ammunition. The rifle also features a “quick change barrel system” that requires only a torque wrench to swap out. Steyr has said that although it’s called a quick change barrel system, it really meant to simplify the process for armorers rather than to serve as an in-the-field barrel change system. Lastly, the rifle will make use of regular AR-10/SR-25 pattern magazines.

The Steyr DMR has been in development for about two years and the plan is to have the rifle start going into production by the end of 2023 in Europe, Steyr has said that they are even ready to take orders for the rifle right now. 

NEW Light and Accurate Steyr DMR Piston AR-10

In this episode of TFBTV Show Time, @JamesReeves is at EnforceTac in Germany to speak with @Steyrmannlicher-rifles about the new Steyr DMR. The Steyr DMR is...

  • Edited 02 March 2023 1:12  by  gatnerd
Mr. T (MrT4)

From: Mr. T (MrT4)


''Ar15 master race'' folks must at one point consider its not AR15 or Ar10 when there is practicaly nothing left of the original features.


From: Farmplinker


"Stoner-inspired" is what we'll call it.....

Kind of like the DI "Kalashnikov".


From: roguetechie


I take solace in knowing somewhere in hell Melvin Johnson is pissed off every time someone says this lol.

Melvin Johnson: Am I a joke to you people?

Yeah Melvin kinda hah.

Oh well at least Melvin can be consoled slightly by seeing good old jean bristle at mostly being "known for" a design he spent the rest of his career trying to knock off it's pillar...

There's a lesson in this somewhere I'm sure but I'll be damned if I can come up with what it is. For anyone who thinks gene didn't at least somewhat hate what the AR became take a look at the FARC, it's about as far from what we think of as the AR as you can get while still being a gun 


From: manimal87


Any news on that? I mean is just the rifle program canceled or the LMG (XM250) too? 


From: stancrist


AFAIK, the XM7 has not been canceled.  That video is based on an Army Times opinion piece (The not-really Next Generation Weapons Program) in which the author thinks that the NGSW program should be canceled.  This bozo took the author's opinion as fact.


From: taschoene


And that author seems to have no experience with infantry small arms beyond watching a bunch of YouTube videos.  I mean, I enjoy InRange TV most of the time, but their "mud test" is not a serious controlled trial under realistic conditions.  And I don't think anyone has been doing YouTube tests with representative AP ammo at actual XM7 pressures.  Which isn't to say that the XM7 can actually deliver -- I have no idea.  But civilian YouTube videos are not a credible test of that.

I still have 2 of my own 6mm cake(TAC6) rifles based on a 6.8 case and built on the LWRC SIX8 platform.  18" barrels, 90 ScenarL-95SMK bullets at 2800fps. For all practical purposes it is a 30 Herrett necked down to 6mm using 6.8 cases trimmed back to 1.59" but loaded to 2.3". Mag cap is 30 rnds.

At 100yds  energy is 50% more than SS109 and at 200-300YDs the energy is double, the 308 shooting 155gr Lapuas would only have 50% more energy than the TAC6.

Recoil doesn't seem to be much more than a 5.56, less than a 6.8 and much less than a 308. Timed through the shooting house I am much faster than any 308 I have tried, HKG3, M1A, AR10 and the lightweight DPMS G2 with a mid gas 16" barrel on it.

I know for myself the weight of the rifle and ammo combined along with heavier recoil slows me down...a lot, I would rather carry one of the 6mms than the 308s.