gatnerd

Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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NGSW Phase 2 Consolidation and info   Small Arms <20mm

Started 30/8/19 by gatnerd; 523305 views.
EmericD

From: EmericD

5/9/19

poliorcetes said...

Anyways, how SiG carbine is supposed to tame .270 WSL-like recoil?

With a suppressor and in-line stock?

poliorcetes

From: poliorcetes

5/9/19

haha yes. With that. The operator will be able to do rapid fire... if dispersion cone is not important :)

stancrist

From: stancrist

5/9/19

poliorcetes said...

Anyways, how SiG carbine is supposed to tame .270 WSL-like recoil?

It isn't.  Riflemen are supposed to take steroids and lift weights so they get big and strong enough to handle the .270 WSL-like recoil.   ;^)

Related image

poliorcetes

From: poliorcetes

5/9/19

I don't get why they even pretend that they are offering a proposal for IW

Red7272

From: Red7272

5/9/19

gatnerd said...

But, it appears to have a vertical "feed tower" in order for it to be inserted into a mag well on the LMG. If that's the case, I suspect the ammo boxes are going to be unnecessary bulky in pouches, due to the need to accommodate the ~2" vertical feed tower. Similar to the problem with storing AR compatible drum mags.

Perhaps the black T bar thing is a detachable part of the gun, but the belt boxes themselves attach to it in some way that is not apparent?

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

6/9/19

"Perhaps the black T bar thing is a detachable part of the gun, but the belt boxes themselves attach to it in some way that is not apparent?"

That's also a possibility, although I'm not sure how the box would reliably clip into such a small area if its not being inserted into the magwell. 

In reply toRe: msg 50
gatnerd

From: gatnerd

6/9/19

Going back to the SIG NGSW Rifle, I did a little weight estimations.

SSD lists the weight as 8.1lbs, with a 13" barrel. That is without optic or suppressor.

SIG NGSW Weight:

Rifle: 8.1lbs

SIG SRD762 Suppressor = 1.0625lbs

Steiner ICS Optic = 1.74lbs

PEQ 16 w/ Batteries = 11.1oz / 0.694lbs

= 11.6lbs

 

7.62 20rd PMAG = 5.5oz/0.344

6.8 ngsw = 19.2g (assuming 20% less weight then 130gr 7.62)

x20 = 0.847lb

1x20rd mag = 1.19lbs

 

SIG NGSW = 11.6lbs empty / 12.79lbs loaded 

 

So, good news is, recoil is less likely to be an issue. 

 

Bad news is, it's pretty heavy:

 

M4A1: 6.36lbs

PEQ16: 0.563lbs

ACOG TA31 RCO= 16.2oz /1.1lbs

M4A1= 8lbs unloaded / 9.1lbs loaded 

 

 

'M4A2' = 6.5lbs

PEQ 16 = 0.563lbs

Sig Tango 6 1-6x = 25.4oz / 1.5875

Gesselt scope mount = 0.45lb

M4A2= 9.1lbs unloaded / 10.1lbs loaded 

 

stancrist

From: stancrist

6/9/19

Good weight tabulation.  I am still amazed by the "all up" weight of M4 variants, but I guess that's because my military service was with the M1 carbine and M16A1 rifle.

Question on the 6.8 NGSW cartridge weight:  Why assume 20% less than 7.62 M80A1?  I'd think there would be negligible difference, since the 6.8 bullet is 5 gr heavier.

Farmplinker

From: Farmplinker

6/9/19

If it does take box mags, will it be more reliable than the M249 with box mags?

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

6/9/19

"Good weight tabulation.  I am still amazed by the "all up" weight of M4 variants, but I guess that's because my military service was with the M1 carbine and M16A1 rifle."

Yes, once you start adding accessories weight definitely goes up. My personal rifles, its quite noticeable at first the change between what came out of the box, vs what it weighs with optic / light / sling. On the other hand, once you get used to it, its less noticeable. 

Looking at weight of accessories, it does show the advantage of starting with as light a base rifle as practical. 

 

"Question on the 6.8 NGSW cartridge weight:  Why assume 20% less than 7.62 M80A1?  I'd think there would be negligible difference, since the 6.8 bullet is 5 gr heavier."

I was being charitable, giving a best case. 

But I agree with you, I expect SIG's offering is going to be pretty close / identical to existing 7.62 Brass. The projectile is about the same, the case is about the same, its likely to have a bit more powder then 7.62, and I just can't figure out how a Steel + Brass case is going to be much lighten then a regular brass or steel case. 

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