Hosted by gatnerd
This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.
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26/8/20
As tech progreses and programambe and even guided rounds are becoming a norm the gun is far more versatile than ever
I particularly like how Italians chose to have 2x 76/62 mm Super Rapid guns on their STOVL carrier .
Russian AU220 naval munt with 'stealth garage' , 5T total weight
7/9/20
Thought this might be relevant.
L3 / DARPA have developed and plan to field a guided 57mm shell. This would be employed on the new FGGX Frigate and LCS.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vY9rJBL1S2Y
This would give the 57mm potential capability against UAS and missiles, and a very good capability against rapidly moving small boats.
If effective, this would prove a very useful Naval Gun indeed.
7/9/20
Then add in work on 76 and 127mm rounds of similar capabilities, and we'll have naval artillery for a long, long time.
7/9/20
I taught the BAE Orca is already a thing?
file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/CDSS/My%20Documents/Downloads/baes_ds_Mk295%20ORKA_redesign_digital.pdf
7/9/20
From what I could see, ORKA was first (and more similar to what DARPA envisioned - a sort of cannon fired 'glide missile'). This would probably be a better option for highly maneuverable targets like missiles.
L3's H4 is a simpler, likely cheaper option. It appears from the video to be a shell, with some sort of internal rotor that helps course correct the shell / counter the natural dispersion of the gun on a moving ship.
Both options - and the future ability to scale for 76mm and 5" guns - point to a continuing utility for Naval guns. Especially as a last line of defense against incoming anti-ship missile threats.
Also makes me wonder about the potential for a 57mm armed Tank/IFV that could provide both ground attack and air defense capability...
8/9/20
It seems the Naval Gun is about to get a lot more useful:
https://breakingdefense.com/2018/01/86000-5600-mph-hyper-velocity-missile-defense/
BAE's HVP projectile is $86k for a guided, Hypervelocity projectile capable of shooting down missiles.
A 155mm version of the HVP was recently fired from an Army Howitzer to shoot down a Cruise Missile in training:
Given the cost of Patriot Missile or Standard 6 missile interceptor is $3 million, 35 HVP's could be fired for the same cost. And a ship can carry far more HVP shells then it can carry Missile Interceptors, making it a very compelling last line of defense.
These shells have already been fired from Naval 5" guns.
8/9/20
There are three 57mm guided rounds that were being offered for the USN.
ORKA from BAE has an IR seeker and pop-out fin steering. It seems fairly conventional but with a flexible seeker that combines autonomous imaging IR and a semi-active laser receiver in one unit.
ALaMO from L3 had some unspecified guidance mode (something RF to judge by the lack of a glass seeker nose) and a fairly unusual mass counterweight course correction system. It apparently has 4 "bolts" that can be ejected laterally to redirect the round, like the side thrusters in PAC-3.
These two are primarily anti-surface rounds for small boat targets, though both are said to have some anti-air capacity against UAVs and helicopters. ALaMO won a USN competition and is on the way to being type classified and deployed.
MAD-FIRES from Raytheon is a different beast. It's primarily intended for antiship cruise missile raid defense. Again, they're being cadgey about guidance, but it seems to be some sort of semi-active radar. Big selling point seems to be the ability to redirect following rounds in flight to reengage targets that survive a first intercept attempt. The technology may also have application to Army guns in either 50mm or 30mm.
8/9/20
gatnerd said:A 155mm version of the HVP was recently fired from an Army Howitzer to shoot down a Cruise Missile in training:
In the same tests, they also fired HVP from a Navy 127mm deck gun and something that looks like a 155mm Advanced Gun System test rig.
It's been intriguing to watch the pivot; when HVP was announced a few years ago, it was sold as an extended range anti-surface round, but this test shows the transition to air and missile defense has been fairly complete.
8/9/20
taschoene said:It's been intriguing to watch the pivot; when HVP was announced a few years ago, it was sold as an extended range anti-surface round, but this test shows the transition to air and missile defense has been fairly complete.
Thats a welcome change in my book. It shows that the US is finally waking up to the threat posed by Chinas fireworks factory of anti-ship missiles. Of course, if they were really waking up to the threat, they'd be putting more emphasis on Cruise Missile Submarines rather then trying to overcome anti-ship missiles with their current plan of more ships.
Along those lines, I hope MAD-FIRES comes to fruition, as that does seem the most promising cannon candidate for stopping missiles.
8/9/20
Anti Missile use presents an interesting tradeoff for 'optimum' cannon size.
57mm MK3: 220rpm, 120rd magazine, ~10km range
76mm Super Rapid: 120rpm, 80rd magazine; ~20km range
5": 20rpm, 20rd magazine, ~50km range
Smaller guns offer higher rate of fire and magazine capacity, but less range for interception, and lower probability of destroying / deflecting the missile.
Larger provide a further interception range, and higher stopping power, but offer a substantial reduction in magazine capacity and rate of fire.