This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.
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(Around $2700 per gun for L85a3 and $3000 for 416's to the Marines) Now If we look at what HK is charging the French per gun OTOH, which thanks to Emeric we know is right around half of what they charge the Marines, we can see that the British are quite literally paying twice as much per gun for a gun that's going to be actively worse than the 416.
The USMC is paying much, much less now than 3000 $ per M27. I don't even know if they paid such a high price for the initial contract.
They WERE paying much less during the short time window when press attention and public outrage put a bunch of heat on HK, but a few months after the furor died down they raised the prices right back up again.
But yeah, the french are getting a far more reasonable price.
If the sticker shock per gun price wasn't enough that's only the beginning of hk's kicking and gouging of the USMC . One of the best ones is forcing USMC to buy a complete bolt carrier group whenever they need a replacement bolt (which is far more frequent than ideal ESPECIALLY with m855a1) and other fun little things like that.
The USMC did an extremely poor job negotiating their contract and it's costing them shocking amounts of money because of this.
It's sort of the polar opposite situation to what I'd wish upon the bundeswehr (and ultimately my own countries defense budget since every dollar the Germans overpay on guns is one less dollar that actually goes to their not even close to 2% spending obligation)
Then again, let's assume that the Germans try to go with the Steyr retrofit option...
Does anyone here seriously believe that HK isn't going to lawfare their way into dragging that approach to a standstill too?
Truthfully, they should probably just give up and buy 416's or 433's since we all know HK will happily bankrupt itself in pursuit of obstructionism if the bundeswehr tries to do anything but just hand over the money to HK.
As far as I remember, the other candidates were Galil and Sig 552. Sig one was too much expensive, and Galil was outdated. After that, HK achieved a monocultive position: Spanish MoD don't adquiere systems outside of Obendorf :(. And lately we even don't built them
how would a receiver substitution be far from a field strip and change of the old polymer receiver?
I mean, disassembling like this doesn't seem to need a armorer, and neither changing the receiver for another one...
Poli, I don't know enough about the G36 to answer that.
In the replacement program you don't have to break down the guns sort and gauge the parts refinish them reorder out of spec pieces etc....
Yeah. I was only addressing your statement that the upgrade option would require pulling the old guns back to depots, and cost money to do so. The replacement option would also require pulling the old guns back to depots, incurring the same costs.
I was remiss in not saying that I agree with you regarding cost of disassembly, sorting, gauging, and other aspects of doing an upgrade.
In a way going to a new rifle is "easier" on several fronts.
I don't understand how the price could widely change during one contract.
Do you mean that the USMC had a good price for the 50,000 guns they ordered after the initial M27 contract (~8400 rifles), then the price goes up again after that contract because they wanted more guns?
The only information I have is that the price tag was around 1300$ per rifle for the 50,000 rifles contract, to be delivered between 2018 and 2023.
The price went back up on everything but that contract yes and that's not the only contract delivering 416's.
The Marines are paying about 3k per gun for everything but those, and they may not even be getting all of those for $1500.
Considering what the 416 Is and the price of an m4a1 (still under $700) it's way too much at $1500 anyway.
Also on the being forced to buy an entire BCG every time they need a replacement bolt, they're paying disturbingly close to the cost of an m4 per BCG due to how the sustainment contract is written.
Edit: and I know I don't need to remind you how much the 416 doesn't like m855a1. Because the Marines use m855a1 their breakage rates are phenomenally higher than if they were using a different round.
We talked once about how the 416 could be adapted to fire m855a1 without beating up the gun as much. But since it's the DOD and they don't change tdp's that won't happen.
So the Marines are stuck with a too expensive gun that breaks parts at 2-3 times the rate of m4a1 and they're paying on average many times as much to get Spares because of how their sustainment contract is written.
It's all good Stan, it provided an opportunity to clarify things a little better.