Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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LMAO Germany adopts an AR-15   Small Arms <20mm

Started 14/9/20 by QuintusO; 43242 views.

From: roguetechie


The price went back up on everything but that contract yes and that's not the only contract delivering 416's.

The Marines are paying about 3k per gun for everything but those, and they may not even be getting all of those for $1500.

Considering what the 416 Is and the price of an m4a1 (still under $700) it's way too much at $1500 anyway.

Also on the being forced to buy an entire BCG every time they need a replacement bolt, they're paying disturbingly close to the cost of an m4 per BCG due to how the sustainment contract is written.

Edit: and I know I don't need to remind you how much the 416 doesn't like m855a1. Because the Marines use m855a1 their breakage rates are phenomenally higher than if they were using a different round.

We talked once about how the 416 could be adapted to fire m855a1 without beating up the gun as much. But since it's the DOD and they don't change tdp's that won't happen.

So the Marines are stuck with a too expensive gun that breaks parts at 2-3 times the rate of m4a1 and they're paying on average many times as much to get Spares because of how their sustainment contract is written.


From: roguetechie


It's all good Stan, it provided an opportunity to clarify things a little better.


From: poliorcetes


But just pay attention to that basic disassembly that I posted. Dude, less than 20 operations, change receiver, assembly again


From: stancrist


Dude, the exploded diagram you posted only shows the various components.  It tells me nothing about what tools might be needed, or what procedures must be followed to separate them.

For instance, what is involved in barrel removal and installation?  Does it require special tools?  Does it need to be headspaced?  If so, do those tasks need to be done by an armorer?

And I'm puzzled why you even asked me the question, since my statement was only about pulling guns back to the depot.  I did not express any opinion on the ease or difficulty of performing an upgrade.


From: roguetechie


You can download the full armorer manual set for it here.

It's only medium involved.


From: marandreas


taschoene said:

Yeah, you get a feel for this given the full "optional" scope of the retrofit includes a new barrel, fore-end, mag well, etc.  When you get to the point that all you're keeping of the original gun is the stock and trigger group, you're better off starting from scratch. 

Hmm, one advantage traditional rifles have over bullpups is that they can be fitted with visor-compatible stocks / "gas mask stocks."

There's a neat one with a removable cheek piece for the G36, specifially - if you're already upgrading the rifles, you might as well get some of those, right?

And since this is a Steyr upgrade, I think they should at least offer an option for an AUG-style trigger guard and pull-through trigger.

Just a matter of corporate design, you know?

I don't suppose there's an aftermarket bolt assembly for the G36?

With a bit more effort we might be able to replace literally every part, while still billing it as a refit smile


From: Farmplinker


"We rebuilt the rifles to just as good as new".


From: renatohm


Seems that HK is one step closer to be declared the winner.

Can you elaborate on how procurement works in Germany?


From: JPeelen


In my opinion procurement does not work at all in Germany.

Its a paralyzing mixture of bureaucracy as an end in itself and carreerist generals without anything resembling balls.    

In the case of the assault rifle, the patent question so thoroughly discussed on this and other forums was not of any importance in the  decision by the court of Bundeskartellamt. Reason: the contract pricing had to be recalculated. To everyones surprise, Haenel now came out more expensive than Heckler & Koch. How that new price came about, is not explained. Being not the lowest bidder, Haenel is out of the race and Heckler & Koch has won, unless the next higher court (Oberlandesgericht Düsseldorf) does come to another decision.  


From: renatohm


Just like Brazil - too much bureaucracy, too little transparency.

That's awful.