Military Guns and Ammunition

This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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LMAO Germany adopts an AR-15 Small Arms <20mm

Started 14/9/20 by QuintusO; 125551 views.

Msg 27 of 442

In reply toRe: msg 26

From: tidusyuki

18/9/20

I'm still not in the clear of why they decided to go with Haenel's AR aside from the rumors(?) that it's supposed to be a cheaper alt. of the 416.

I thought the bundeswehr have already fond of their 416. And The 433 might be more pricey but it got a lot of new features and improvements from the G36. Did H&K messed up in the run somewhere? or did the Haenel and Caracal just have a more powerful political power?

Msg 28 of 442 to tidusyukitidusyuki

In reply toRe: msg 27

From: Mr. T (MrT4)

18/9/20

52mio Eur cheaper is a huge chunk on a 250mio Eur deal, the problem is if that saving is mostly down to creative accounting in regards to firearm life span being longer due to that replaceable cam thingy.

Msg 29 of 442 to tidusyukitidusyuki

In reply toRe: msg 27

From: JPeelen

19/9/20

Just for the record [don't take this as my statement of supporting the selection]:

A more or less official statement sadi that the Haenel weapon fulfilled all requirements and was "over the expected lifespan" cheaper than the competition.

The 52 million EUR figure cited in this thread does not show up in any official statement I am aware of. I have no idea how close it is to the truth.

Msg 30 of 442 to gatnerdgatnerd

In reply toRe: msg 25

From: poliorcetes

22/9/20

I guess this channel will be interesting for you:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6htLMymL0WJSNe109iBU1A

grand-grand-grandfathers of pocket knifes aka navajas

Msg 31 of 442 to Mr. T (MrT4)MrT4

In reply toRe: msg 2

From: poliorcetes

22/9/20

I'm trying to fully understand the role of a replaceable cam in extending rifle's lifespan

Would you be (or anybody) be so kindly to develop it?

Msg 32 of 442 to poliorcetespoliorcetes

In reply toRe: msg 31

From: QuintusO

22/9/20

An AR-15 does not have APE which means the interior of the aluminum receiver stops the bolt from locking prematurely. Over time the wall of the receiver at the cam pin location wears out and the upper has to be replaced.

Msg 33 of 442 to QuintusOQuintusO

In reply toRe: msg 32

From: tidusyuki

23/9/20

The wears could also be minimized by using a roller cam pin. Then again it's patented stuff so companies don't go around making one.

Wonder why E. Stoner made the cam pin rectangular instead of smooth rounding in the first place.

Edited 23 September 2020 5:03 by tidusyuki

Msg 34 of 442 to tidusyukitidusyuki

In reply toRe: msg 33

From: QuintusO

23/9/20

The roller isn't in patent. There are Armalite guns from 1960 with roller cam pins.

It's ultimately unnecessary and adds cost, which is probably what they were thinking at the time (would have been Sullivan and Fremont). However I agree a roller is an improvement. My guns avoid this issue entirely by using an APE rod.