Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons, particularly in larger calibres (12.7+mm).

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50 cal MG with multi-lug rotating bolt mechanism   General Military Discussion

Started 21-Sep by tidusyuki; 2005 views.

From: roguetechie


Have you ever seen m2's used off a tripod?

Have you ever seen the sheer amount of time and work it takes to emplace a tripodded m2?

Not only would new guns potentially offer dual selectable feed and lighter weight but also far more manageable recoil characteristics which equate to much easier and faster emplacing when necessary.

If it ain't broke don't fix it only gets you so far when the Chinese and Russians are punching out 18.5kg 12.7x108 guns you absolutely can take you with you.

Especially in combination with their lightweight AGL's which can be emplaced and ran by two dudes that weigh less all up including multiple boxes of belted ammo the AGL itself and it's tripod that weigh less in total than a mark 19.

At the end of the day, if it ain't broke don't fix it only applies to situations where it ain't freakin broke.

Since the situation is broke though, we should seriously consider fixing it.


From: Farmplinker


There is the Mk. 47 now, so we have a lighter AGL than the Mk. 19. I also wonder about the reliability of these ultra-lightweight 12.7 MGs.

I'm more worried about the opposition developing really low cost man portable guided munitions.


From: roguetechie


I'm worried about both tbqh. That is an option too you know?


From: mpopenker


Kord-12.7 heavy machine gun is not Ultra-LW, as it is about 32 kg on bipod plus about 11 kg for a can with 50 linked rounds; but it still can be maneuvered through the battlefield by a team of two or three men; It is also can be dismounted from a lightweight ATV to be used on ground if vehicle is disabled or team is temporary holding a stationary position


From: autogun


I'll add a third reason to my list of reasons why the M2 remains in service: there's not a lot of point in saving some weight on the gun given the massive weight of a moderate supply of ammo for it. Now if TV did a neckless polymer .50 cal round that would be a different matter.


From: tidusyuki


Thank you!

I've been looking for images of internal parts of both guns on the internet for so long. Guess people just don't go around taking and posting pictures of machine gun guts lol.

Interesting how the bolt and carrier looks just like a scaled up AR15 bolt on the CIS50. Definitely different from the DD (Dover Devil).
Wish i could see more of it's insides. Especially the feeding mechanism.
I guess that sticking out pin on the carrier tail is used to change between right and left feeding.

Those lugs on the Kord barrel extension looks awfully small to be considered a locking lugs. Then again it looks like there's two rows of locking lugs there. I can't quite make it out from the Pic. Again also wish i could see more of it's insides lol.


From: QuintusO


The M2 persists because of a superstition (or, more charitably, a lack of trust) within the Armor Branch. In fact, it has been "replaced" many times. All were dismal failures. The M2 works so the cav boys don't let the Army touch it. Simple as that.

The best way to piss off someone in the GCS offices is to start trashing the M2 and suggesting that it needs replacing. Try it. ;)


From: roguetechie


Precisely my point though... There's already type classified polymer case ammo for 12.7x99.

So, uh... Polymer ammo? Check

Also, that's like saying there's no point making lightweight combat gear because body armor is heavy. It's an excuse to be mediocre.

Also, If there really was no point in making these systems lightweight, why in God's name are they paying FN to lightweight the m2?!

At a certain point, which we're incredibly far past by any sane metric, the sunk cost fallacy is just an excuse for mediocrity bordering on absurdity and criminal stupidity.

They've also spent really good money fairly recently getting these systems new lightweight tripods for some strange reason.

It seems to me that the there's no point excuse is beyond threadbare when all of the evidence points to there most definitely being an impetus to do something better.

We are at this point spending more money to work around a woefully obsolete system than we should be when we could spend a bit more and just actually get a new better gun(s) that actually fit our needs.

As far as people bringing up the Stryker AGL, they'd have a point If it was actually replacing the mk19's across the board.

But it's not.


From: autogun


There's "polymer ammo" and then there's polymer ammo.....

The .50 MK 323 round from MAC LLC still retains a heavy chunk of the brass case (see below), limiting the weight saving to around 17% (I know they claim more, but I've weighed it myself...). That's nice to have, but not ground-breaking.

The TV polymer cases only retain a small metal base, and judging by the smaller calibre rounds they make, the savings should be at least 30%.

If you really want a portable weapon with the power of a .50, then take a Barrett.