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Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons, particularly in larger calibres (12.7+mm).

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Marines JLTV RWS: 30mm + 7.62 + Stinger   Army Guns 20+mm

Started 21-Sep by gatnerd; 1128 views.
taschoene

From: taschoene

22-Sep

I believe that E indicates a variant of an experimental or developmental system.  When the XM914E1 is accepted for service, it should become the M914A1.

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

22-Sep

autogun said:

nteresting that the US is suddenly planning to acquire, or actually acquiring, three cannon to replace the multi-purpose 25 mm M242: the 30 mm Mk 44/XM813 in 30 x 173 for the USN, and the Army on board some of the Stryker fleet); the 50 mm XM913 in 50 x 228 for whatever replaces the Bradley; and now the M230LF/XM914 in 30 x 113B for smaller AFVs. 

I know for the 30x113, a big factor was the airburst capability for countering UAV's and infantry.

For the US navy, I think testing showed that 30mm was more effective against small boats. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FAPcK9uPwo&feature=youtu.be&t=425

In both applications, the AC is primarily a 'HE delivery' system vs armor penetrator, which would favor a wider diameter shell. 

Not really sure whats up with the 50mm. I'd assume its over concerns that current IFV's can stop 30x173 APFDS, or will be able to in the future. But it could be to maximize HE airburst capability as well. 

autogun

From: autogun

22-Sep

Yes, the 50mm gun provides both an improved armour penetration and - even more so - a bigger and more effective HE airburst shell.

The 30 mm Mk 44 has a less obvious advantage for the Navy; it can use APFSDS "Swimmer" hydroballistic (supercavitating) ammo which shoots straight through waves without much deviation or velocity loss. Good for hitting small craft in rough seas.

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

22-Sep

autogun said:

The 30 mm Mk 44 has a less obvious advantage for the Navy; it can use APFSDS "Swimmer" hydroballistic (supercavitating) ammo which shoots straight through waves without much deviation or velocity loss. Good for hitting small craft in rough seas.

Yes, in general I think the 25-30mm AC on ships (like our LCS) are really mediocre weapons, combining short range, limited stopping power against boats, and poor rate of fire. 

I'd rather see them replaced with something like a 20-30 shot Martlet/APKWS launching turret, as the 'gun' role can be better handled by the ships 57mm.

Farmplinker

From: Farmplinker

22-Sep

SEARAM. 8 RAMs on a trainable mount derived from the Phalanx system.

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

22-Sep

Yeah, the rolling airframe missile would also be a good option, already has a 21 shot launcher, and can also provide air defense / anti missile as well. 

Downside is I think the rolling airframes are pretty expensive, $998k.

Whereas APKWS is $30k, and Hellfire $90k; I assume Martlet is something in between.

DavidPawley

From: DavidPawley

22-Sep

SEARAM is a CIWS though.

MK44 is a replacement for pintle mounted M2HB, controllable by CIC for superior capability vs small surface targets.

tldr navy autocannon are big MG, not small NGS or DP.

taschoene

From: taschoene

22-Sep

I think there is value in a 25-30mm gun, as warning shots and for some defense against really small boats.  But I tend to agree with the idea of mounting something like APKWS on the same mount.  They've already demoed a 5-round Martlet pack on the standard RN 30mm mount, which seems like a very sensible idea.

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

22-Sep

taschoene said:

I think there is value in a 25-30mm gun, as warning shots and for some defense against really small boats.  But I tend to agree with the idea of mounting something like APKWS on the same mount.  They've already demoed a 5-round Martlet pack on the standard RN 30mm mount, which seems like a very sensible idea

I'd figure the 57mm already provides warning shot capability no? And a more authoritative warning at that. 

The range on the 30mm is short enough that even a small boat with an anti-tank rocket like the Koronet would be in range of the ship before the 30mm could engage. 

Anti tank used against ship:

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/claims-missile-attack-egypt-navy-boat

While an AT missile wont sink a ship, it would certainly cause significant damage.

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