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Doubt about AK-12 design   Small Arms <20mm

Started 10-Oct by poliorcetes; 2710 views.
Mr. T (MrT4)

From: Mr. T (MrT4)

10-Oct

Assault rifles requrements are 3-4 moa ..... ,its not a high threshold. Things can flex and flop around as long as they end up in the same place afterwards.

Yes AK archihecture is a bit arhaic for mounting optics. Maybe they should have gone along the lines of CAA AK Alpha , but i think the AM-17 they have is meant to replace AK in long term ,Till then AK familly can still be made by the million at super low cost. I  think much of the difficulty is how to adapt the design to low cost stamped metal construction (maybe their cold weather requirements are not favorable to plastics that can become brittle )  

 Kalashnikov folks still tinker around AK ,this is suposedly and early AK521 prototype .  I can only imagine the issues developing upper like this possibly a mix of aluminum with steel rails and parts 

https://www.youtube.com/embed/-N8_tbnT__8

Red7272

From: Red7272

10-Oct

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

 Kalashnikov folks still tinker around AK ,this is suposedly and early AK521 prototype .  I can only imagine the issues developing upper like this possibly a mix of aluminum with steel rails and parts 

I remember asking max this and he said zero retention was excellent. There is also the Valmet using a similar system without issue.

As for the tipping upper, that was my thought on how they would be able to retain most of the AK innards with a more practical top rail. It would require a new trigger group but otherwise be doable. I would imagine an all steel final design because aluminum and steel have different coefficients of linear thermal expansion. 

mpopenker

From: mpopenker

11-Oct

poliorcetes said:

1. Am I correct about AK-12?

No, you are not. Hinged cover is used on AK-200. AK-12 has detachable top cover with a spring-loaded rear support which ensures return to zero. If you will watch any slo-mo of AK shooting, it rear sight jumps around quite a lot, but returns to zero each time burst is over

poliorcetes said:

Can such (feeble?) receiver cover maintain zeroing as securelly as a true upper cover do?

according to my personal experience, yes it can.

.

mpopenker

From: mpopenker

11-Oct

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

Assault rifles requrements are 3-4 moa ..... ,its not a high threshold. Things can flex and flop around as long as they end up in the same place afterwards.

With my Kalashnikov TR-3 carbine (civvy AK-12 5.45) i can produce 5-shot 2-3 moa groups with irons, using 4.2 gram Barnaul ammo. However, it appears that 7N6M military ammo could be a bit less accurate. But with 7N40 'improved accuracy" i can bet 1.5-2 MOA is doable routinely

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

11-Oct

Max, has Russia decided what the 'standard' optic will be for the AK-12? And how widely will optics be issued?

mpopenker

From: mpopenker

11-Oct

So far I have no such info

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

11-Oct

I ask because I came across this pic on reddit a week or two ago:

https://www.reddit.com/r/MilitaryPorn/comments/iwern2/russian_paratrooper_in_belarus_with_a_very_nice/

It struck me as odd that the AK-12 - whose main upgrade seems to be the ability to easily mount optics - didn't have an optic. 

In reply toRe: msg 1
tidusyuki

From: tidusyuki

11-Oct

Aside from cost and complexity, how does the first prototype compared to the currently accepted AK-12 design?
Was there any reliability problems with the first prototype?

It looks like this first design have some major improvements like the ambi AR style selector, hinged top cover with rails, and no more open slot for the reciprocating charging handle. It's a completely new design rather than just an upgraded version of AK74.

mpopenker

From: mpopenker

11-Oct

Zlobin's AK-12 was too expensive, and had many reliability and durability problems. Basically it failed the trials, and there were no time nor resources or will in the new top management to keep it going

poliorcetes

From: poliorcetes

11-Oct

Thanks for your answers, Maxim.

Quoting from your text:

> A decision ultimately was made to retire the failed design and its chief designer, and to get back to work developing a weapon that would be better suited to existing manufacturing processes

Is K. Concern trapped on AK production line? I mean, AFAIK AK-74M production lines are really mature and well established and they are based on huge mass production. Was a change on such lines a too impractical effort? 

 

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