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Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons, particularly in larger calibres (12.7+mm).

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Doubt about AK-12 design   Small Arms <20mm

Started 10-Oct by poliorcetes; 2554 views.
mpopenker

From: mpopenker

11-Oct

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

Assault rifles requrements are 3-4 moa ..... ,its not a high threshold. Things can flex and flop around as long as they end up in the same place afterwards.

With my Kalashnikov TR-3 carbine (civvy AK-12 5.45) i can produce 5-shot 2-3 moa groups with irons, using 4.2 gram Barnaul ammo. However, it appears that 7N6M military ammo could be a bit less accurate. But with 7N40 'improved accuracy" i can bet 1.5-2 MOA is doable routinely

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

11-Oct

Max, has Russia decided what the 'standard' optic will be for the AK-12? And how widely will optics be issued?

mpopenker

From: mpopenker

11-Oct

So far I have no such info

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

11-Oct

I ask because I came across this pic on reddit a week or two ago:

https://www.reddit.com/r/MilitaryPorn/comments/iwern2/russian_paratrooper_in_belarus_with_a_very_nice/

It struck me as odd that the AK-12 - whose main upgrade seems to be the ability to easily mount optics - didn't have an optic. 

In reply toRe: msg 1
tidusyuki

From: tidusyuki

11-Oct

Aside from cost and complexity, how does the first prototype compared to the currently accepted AK-12 design?
Was there any reliability problems with the first prototype?

It looks like this first design have some major improvements like the ambi AR style selector, hinged top cover with rails, and no more open slot for the reciprocating charging handle. It's a completely new design rather than just an upgraded version of AK74.

mpopenker

From: mpopenker

11-Oct

Zlobin's AK-12 was too expensive, and had many reliability and durability problems. Basically it failed the trials, and there were no time nor resources or will in the new top management to keep it going

poliorcetes

From: poliorcetes

11-Oct

Thanks for your answers, Maxim.

Quoting from your text:

> A decision ultimately was made to retire the failed design and its chief designer, and to get back to work developing a weapon that would be better suited to existing manufacturing processes

Is K. Concern trapped on AK production line? I mean, AFAIK AK-74M production lines are really mature and well established and they are based on huge mass production. Was a change on such lines a too impractical effort? 

 

Red7272

From: Red7272

11-Oct

poliorcetes said:

Is K. Concern trapped on AK production line? I mean, AFAIK AK-74M production lines are really mature and well established and they are based on huge mass production. Was a change on such lines a too impractical effort? 

The AK-12 has advanced a lot from the Ak-74m, but when there is nothing wrong with the round or the gun there is not really any pressure to do things differently.

tidusyuki

From: tidusyuki

12-Oct

I see. Such a shame. What's your opinion about the A545?

Also mind explaining how the 2 round burst on the AK12 works? i'm curious how the fcg looks like.

mpopenker

From: mpopenker

12-Oct

A545 is a nice rifle, however only real life use could show if all that added complication and cost is worth the added effectiveness in automatic fire, which, according to all historical documents is not that big.

as for AK-12, I never get down to details of its trigger group, and in all honesty i hope that military would drop the 2-rd mode as soon as possible.

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