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Chinese loitering kamikaze drones   General Military Discussion

Started 13-Oct by Mr. T (MrT4); 1456 views.
poliorcetes

From: poliorcetes

13-Oct

Thanks for sharing

The actual problem and menace is that China is the main builder of drone components by far. If they decide to build such nimble toys by the hundred of thousands, there is no more war for a country not defended with nuclear weapons. I mean, such loiters would make logistic networks impossible

Red7272

From: Red7272

13-Oct

poliorcetes said:

The actual problem and menace is that China is the main builder of drone components by far. If they decide to build such nimble toys by the hundred of thousands, there is no more war for a country not defended with nuclear weapons. I mean, such loiters would make logistic networks impossible

Nah, they won't be that successful. Decoys and hard counters will stop a lot and a slightly smaller, faster, cheaper anti-loiter drone will get the rest. 

autogun

From: autogun

14-Oct

Red7272 said:

My thought was a self destructing projectile that burnt up in flight might be required for safety, basically a MP projectile with a tracer that burnt though and ignited the main charge after some fraction of a second.

You have described the M940 projectile specially developed for the Centurion C-RAM (land-based 20mm Phalanx).

Red7272

From: Red7272

14-Oct

autogun said:

You have described the M940 projectile specially developed for the Centurion C-RAM (land-based 20mm Phalanx).

Also how the Bofors 40 mm self destruct in WWII worked IIRC.

poliorcetes

From: poliorcetes

14-Oct

That is wishful thinking in epic proportions.

The main problem is the manufacturing capability. They have the manufacturing capability equivalent to a meaningful part of the rest of the entire world. 

Another menacing problem is that it seems to be quite compatible with components off-the-shelves. And quite simple, at least apparently.

Besides, there is no backblast. Just a "thumpp" caused by compressed air, judging by the sound

This thing is designed to be deployed and used by the hundred of thousands at least

I would dare to think that china is not going to use it directly against any neighbour, However, they will sell it to anyone who can buy it

autogun

From: autogun

14-Oct

Red7272 said:

Also how the Bofors 40 mm self destruct in WWII worked IIRC.

Probably - I know that the USN's 1.1 inch SD round worked in that way. The alternative method was to build self-destruct into the fuze, but that's added complication. If you are going to want a tracer AA cannon round anyway (as you should for all AA ammo against manned aircraft, for the distraction effect), it makes sense to link this with SD. Not only do SD rounds avoid the problem of live ammo missing the target and flying on to hit friendlies, the sight of the shells detonating among the attacking aircraft adds to the distraction effect.

Mr. T (MrT4)

From: Mr. T (MrT4)

14-Oct

The RWS optics might not be well suited of scanning the sky 24/7, but a dedicated optic on at least one of the vehicles like that Hanwha EOTS could ,then have target data distributed to units RWS upgraded with some AD function, 40mm airburst like Nammo has demonstrated with Kongsberg RWS might be the ticket.this one might do it without dual-feed grenade luncher as it seems to be a versatile projectile.

Watching the vids of RWS ,most are slow as hell and not very 'fluid' in their movement ,they kinda go from pointing at point A to point B in a rather rough way,would need be considerably more fluid and faster moving for Air defense role but that is likely very doable. At the prices manufacturers charge for RWS you would expect this to be of no extra cost.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPaC1LTrHy0

But likely the EW might be the best shield. 

Like Poliorcetes said Chinese can likely make this in absolutely mindboggling numbers for not much $$ shooting down and chasing each drone might not be practical. 

One more thing,i can only imagine how these things impact troops morale as suddenly anything moveing or making noise in the sky can be a threat not just stuff on the ground.

Red7272

From: Red7272

14-Oct

poliorcetes said:

This thing is designed to be deployed and used by the hundred of thousands at least

That would be an extraordinary waste of money. Also they are individually controlled in the video which makes them vulnerable to ECM, decoys, and distinguishing live targets from dead ones. Even a battalion of these things (24 launchers based on artillery organisation) would be less than 1000 rounds. If the round cost is $20000 and the vehicle $ 1000000 it is still not something that will be practical in the numbers you are suggesting. 

poliorcetes

From: poliorcetes

14-Oct

with economies of scale and leveraging as much commercial component as possible, I find feasible to reduce one order of magnitude your figure. I would assume that this CH-901 is going to be less exquisite that an AeronVironment switchblade 300 or a Coyote

Civilian drone industry is almost entirelly theirs. That should mean something

Red7272

From: Red7272

14-Oct

poliorcetes said:

with economies of scale and leveraging as much commercial component as possible, I find feasible to reduce one order of magnitude your figure.

By pulling numbers out of your ass you mean. A military grade system with a multi year shelf life will not be using a lot or any commercial components. The issue is as much the logistics of fielding them as their cost, so there might well be massive numbers, but their success will depend as much on SEAD, ELINT and ECCM as numbers.

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