Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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XM-25 here we go again...   Army Guns 20+mm

Started 9/11/20 by autogun; 16035 views.

From: stancrist


Red7272 said: was a throwaway insult at the US military hierarchy rather than the troops themselves.

Kindly don't call the troops stupid, if you mean to insult the leadership.


From: DavidPawley


Has the UK withdrawn from NATO then? Canada? Czech Republic? France? The Netherlands?

Or are you making stuff up in order to create your "throwaway insult"?


From: renatohm


66 is 78.6% of 84 - linearly. In terms of volume it's 48.5%.

It doesn't necessarily mean that stuff will be half the weight, but it does mean that available volume for HE fill will be that much smaller, if not more - you can't cut wall thickness below a certain amount.

Take 23 mm vs 30 mm autocannon ammunition as an example. The linear fraction is about 78%, and the volume fraction is 45%, so it's about the same ballpark.

Going by Tony's tables, the heaviest 23 mm shell weighed 204 g while the heaviest 30 mm shell weighed 430 g, which is much closer to 45% than to 78%.


From: gatnerd


Thank you, thats very helpful. 

Do you know, is there any reason to think that a Gustav 66mm warhead would be smaller then 66mm HE warhead on the LAW? 

Msg 7758.95 and the next 1 deleted

From: graylion


It was perfectly clear to me that he was insulting the leadership. This is called sarcasm.


From: Red7272


DavidPawley said:

Or are you making stuff up in order to create your "throwaway insult"?

Well the US and France have the same number of wheeled APCs but one army is 10 times the size of the other. 

UK is another colonial power so doesn't count.

Czech just bought 1200 Toyota hilux so that will be fixed soon (military hardware not much of a priority it seems)

Canada and Netherlands I'm out of date on equipment.

And it was a very casual insult.


From: renatohm


No, I don't think that the difference would be substantial.

For example, the M20 Super Bazooka and the M67 recoil less rifle both launched 89-90 mm grenades, and their weight was very similar - 4 and 4.2 kg respectively, a mere 5% weight difference.

M20 is interesting - 6 kg for the weapon + 4 kg each round. The M67 weapon weighs a humongous 17 kg!

As for 66 mm LAW, the rocket weighs .9 kg and the package weighs 2.5 kg.

The 84 mm AT4 M136 rocket weighs 1.8 kg for a package weight of 6.7 kg (8 for the CS version).

Rocket weight difference is 50%, very close to the 48.5% I mentioned above.

  • Edited 23 November 2020 11:48  by  renatohm

From: Farmplinker


The US is buying a bunch of modified Chevy pickups.

The reason why US troops walk so much is because they are often in 1. Vehicle unfriendly terrain, and 2. To get out and talk to the locals. This is the root of the problem of overloading of troops, and won't go away.