gatnerd

Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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PDW again   Small Arms <20mm

Started 20/12/20 by DavidPawley; 155337 views.
graylion

From: graylion

4-Dec

I like this. It shows the limitations of rotating barrels. Turn an Alien into a USW ;o)

stancrist

From: stancrist

4-Dec

Here is a stocked Glock used in the same match, with about the same results.

              Bonus Material: Flux Raider at Desert Brutality 2022 - YouTube

It would be nice to see how a B&T TP9 would do in comparison to these pistols.

nincomp

From: nincomp

12-Dec

In the two recent videos about Universal Service Weapons (ie. stocked pistols), the shooters stated that a major issue was accuracy as the targets approached 100m.  This seemed to be considerably worse than anticipated.   Ian mentioned that this was more an issue caused by limitations of the tilting-barrel system and the short barrels rather than the cartridge.  He stated that carbines using the same cartridge performed much better.

What would be the optimal choice for a base pistol to be used with a USW chassis and still maintain near-pistol-like portability?

Thanks

graylion

From: graylion

12-Dec

nincomp said:

What would be the optimal choice for a base pistol to be used with a USW chassis and still maintain near-pistol-like portability?

https://www.laugoarms.com/alien.html :)

EmericD

From: EmericD

12-Dec

nincomp said:

What would be the optimal choice for a base pistol to be used with a USW chassis and still maintain near-pistol-like portability?

A less expensive option than the Laugo Alien, the FN Five seveN.

https://fnherstal.com/fr/uncategorized-fr/fn-herstal-revisite-son-arme-de-poing-fn-five-seven-design-ameliore-et-ergonomie-retravaillee/

graylion

From: graylion

12-Dec

EmericD said:

A less expensive option than the Laugo Alien, the FN Five seveN.

I was more thinking about the basic design of the Alien ;)

Msg 7776.765 deleted
gatnerd

From: gatnerd

12-Dec

nincomp said:

What would be the optimal choice for a base pistol to be used with a USW chassis and still maintain near-pistol-like portability?

Well whats interesting is nearly any modern pistol should be mechanically accurate enough within 100yd. 

A mediocre duty pistol should still do 4" @ 25yd, which would still be hitting a torso sized target at 100yd.

Heres a guy shooting a CZ P09 and P10F at 100yd, getting about 1/2 of that:

Pistol Range 3 15 15 P 09 only at 100 yd

Best 6 of 10 shots at 100 yards, LOL. Looks better when you edit out the fliers.

2022 5 26 P 10F at 100 yds at Lonestar target 3

A good result with the P-10F after struggling with the P-10S, due to distractions at the range and lack of trigger time. Seems I can shoot the P-10F pretty ...

I've done a decent amount of shooting at 100yd and beyond with my Glocks and FN FsN; the 5.7 is noticeably more accurate and easier to shoot at range.

But the Glock still hits a torso sized steel at 100yd reliably. 

Heres my 17L at 15yd, off hand, shooting the cheapest 115gr FMJ I could find. Its about 1.5" at 15yd, which is 10moa at 100yd. With any type of stock, or a better shooter, it would have been capable of better accuracy.

I'm traveling right now, but in a month or two I'll try and hit the range for a 100yd group to test.

Now that said, there are ways to improve mechanical accuracy of a pistol by fitting the barrel to the slide, and especially in a way that increases lockup time. That would be worth doing for a USW type weapon.

Apex has had great luck with this for the M&P, getting accuracy to 1" @ 25yd. Aftermarket Glock barrels can get to ~1.5" depending on ammo.

Apex Grade Barrels: The Inside Story

Randy Lee, president of Apex Tactical Specialties and the designer of the patent pending Apex Grade Barrel, explains what went into the design and developmen...

  • Edited 12 December 2022 17:36  by  gatnerd
nincomp

From: nincomp

12-Dec

gatnerd said:

Well whats interesting is nearly any modern pistol should be mechanically accurate enough within 100yd. 

That makes me think that issues with the red-dot may have been larger than Ian thought when he initially spoke about accuracy.  There may have been ammo issues as well.  I hope he does a more extensive test to determine the accuracy of his USW.  The "9 out of 10 rounds on a a full-sized silhouette" at 100 yards is not very impressive.  Then again, the fellow who ran a similar but Glock-based system had very similar results.

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

12-Dec

nincomp said:

"9 out of 10 rounds on a a full-sized silhouette" at 100 yards is not very impressive

Mechanically thats not great accuracy / hit probability. 

In terms of combat hit probability for a USW in a war against rifleman, that would likely be fantastic though. 

Unless the pistols used are straight garbage rods, I think the majority of misses in combat with the USW or other stocked pistol would be to stress and the limited ergonomics of the weapon + having a tiny RDS right in front of the face.

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