nincomp said:

"9 out of 10 rounds on a a full-sized silhouette" at 100 yards is not very impressive

Mechanically thats not great accuracy / hit probability. 

In terms of combat hit probability for a USW in a war against rifleman, that would likely be fantastic though. 

Unless the pistols used are straight garbage rods, I think the majority of misses in combat with the USW or other stocked pistol would be to stress and the limited ergonomics of the weapon + having a tiny RDS right in front of the face.

gatnerd said:

Mechanically thats not great accuracy / hit probability.  In terms of combat hit probability for a USW in a war against rifleman, that would likely be fantastic though. 

Those seem like contradictory statements.  I don't see how poor hit probability in simulated combat matches = fantastic hit probability in actual ground war.

Judging by Ian's videos, it looks to me like hypothetical USW users would be severely outclassed/outgunned/outranged by enemy infantry with assault rifles.

gatnerd said:

...I think the majority of misses in combat with the USW or other stocked pistol would be to stress and the limited ergonomics of the weapon + having a tiny RDS right in front of the face.

I agree.  So perhaps a stocked pistol with tiny RDS right in front of the face is simply not the way to go. 

Perhaps what is needed is a compact, purpose designed PDW with much better sight and ergonomics.

stancrist said:

I don't see how poor hit probability in simulated combat matches = fantastic hit probability in actual ground war. Judging by Ian's videos, it looks to me like hypothetical USW users would be severely outclassed/outgunned/outranged by enemy infantry with assault rifles.

No thats what I meant; a USW user would be lucky to make 9/10 hits at 100yd just do to the shootability factors of the USW vs a rifleman. 

The limitation isn't really the mechanical accuracy but just the shootability of the platform.

"Perhaps what is needed is a compact, purpose designed PDW with much better sight and ergonomics"

I haven't shot the USW, but I shouldered one at SHOT. Its an awesome handgun - like a super handgun - but not a rifle substitute.

The ergos are super cramped:

The MP9 is marginally larger but feels worlds better, like a little rifle:

The video of the USW used in a competition is really intresting.

...and I have to write it: I wonder how he would have scored with a MP7.

Or an Uzi for that matter.
I tried to see if weapons like the Uzi, Mp5, Evo III or MP7 fall into the same category as the USW but did not find a definitve answer. To me it seems like yes.

P.S.:
A stocked C96 or P08 in such a competition also would also be extremly intresting

gatnerd said:

I haven't shot the USW, but I shouldered one at SHOT. Its an awesome handgun - like a super handgun - but not a rifle substitute. The ergos are super cramped:

I do agree that there seems to be a problem with the ergonomics of the USW.
As mentioned in several other posts there certainly is no technical limit to hitting at 100 m/yards. In the video it seems quite obvious that the limitations are the ergonomics and human weapon interface.
IMHO the USW concept for a PDW is dead because of this finding. Its superiour to a handgun while having the same carriability but it falls short in the 100 m requirement. Which is integral to the PDW requirement.
At the very least the USW would have to be reworked to adress this. But chances are the result will be in the MP9 or MP7 size and form category.

schnuersi said:

I wonder how he would have scored with a MP7. Or an Uzi for that matter. I tried to see if weapons like the Uzi, Mp5, Evo III or MP7 fall into the same category as the USW but did not find a definitve answer. To me it seems like yes

I've only shot the MP7 at 10yd, but the 'feel' of it was very rifle like. Like a mini rifle. Very good ergonomics. 

The PS90 - longer barrel civilian version of the P90 - is rifle accurate; 1.5-2" at 100yd, and capable of hitting targets comfortably out to 200yd (albeit with .22lr levels of energy at that range.) 

I suspect the MP7 is comparable in accuracy, and would be just as accurate as any red dot equipped 5.56 at 100yd. 

schnuersi said:

IMHO the USW concept for a PDW is dead because of this finding. Its superiour to a handgun while having the same carriability but it falls short in the 100 m requirement.

I don't think its dead, at least for countries fielding the P320. Its performance is worse then a rifle or real PDW, but it allows the 320 service pistol to be quickly and cheaply converted into a semi passable PDW, or at a minimum a much more capable weapon than a unstocked handgun.

That allows an army to field a sort of improvised PDW without a new weapon solicitation, which is often as important as actual performance.

Conversion kit is ~$200 retail, so pretty cheap.

But if an actual PDW program was launched, then it would lose to a more capable system.

Another interesting variation of a SIG 320-based PDW is the Strike Industries Modular Chassis.  This one moves the optic to non-reciprocating mount behind the pistol.  These photos do not show a stock mounted to the rear rail.  Although this chassis may permit the mounting of a better optic, it gets more unwieldy and longer than the USW.  If a foreword grip is added, holstering becomes a bigger issue.

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2022/12/12/strike-modular-chassis-alpha/

schnuersi said:

The video of the USW used in a competition is really intresting.

...and I have to write it: I wonder how he would have scored with a MP7. Or an Uzi for that matter.

I tried to see if weapons like the Uzi, Mp5, Evo III or MP7 fall into the same category as the USW but did not find a definitve answer. To me it seems like yes.

You must be joking. 

The MP5, EVO 3, MP7 and UZI are essentially 9mm assault rifles, designed as shoulder-fired weapons, with good ergonomics, rapid-fire controllability, and capable of using good optics.

The USW is just a pistol, to which a rudimentary stock has been added.  It lacks the size, weight, and ergonomics of those submachine guns, and is absolutely not in the same category.

YouTube

Ohio Subgun Match 2022 Optics Class

Ohio Subgun Match, held at Tusco Rifle & Pistol Club, June 2022I was shooting the Uzi in Optics Class

schnuersi said:

In the video it seems quite obvious that the limitations are the ergonomics and human weapon interface. IMHO the USW concept for a PDW is dead...

Its superiour to a handgun while having the same carriability but it falls short in the 100 m requirement. Which is integral to the PDW requirement.

At the very least the USW would have to be reworked to adress this. But chances are the result will be in the MP9 or MP7 size and form category.

It might be possible to rework the USW concept to address the issues, but I see no reason that would require the result to have nearly the size and bulk of the MP7 and MP9.

The result could probably be about as long as the MP9, but noticeably slimmer.  Think something similar to the Colt SCAMP, except with an integral stock similar to the MP7.