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Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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UK military spending review   General Military Discussion

Started 13/3/21 by autogun; 14127 views.
autogun

From: autogun

11/6/22

schnuersi said:

As soon as multiple companies are involved things get messy quickly. If its multiple companies from multiple countries it gets worse and if its multiple companies from multiole countries from multiple cooperations its an invitation to disaster.

One of the other problems with Ajax has been the ammo feed to the 40mm gun (I don't know if it's been sorted yet).

The story I have heard is as follows: CTAI designed their ammo feed together with the gun. The French adopted the CTAI package unchanged and it works just fine, but LM, who won the British contract for the Ajax turret, decided to design their own feed. Not good...

RovingPedant

From: RovingPedant

11/6/22

schnuersi said...

That really is rather problematic. Vibration problems usually are because of the interaction of several parts. There often is no single source or cause. This can be very tough to pinpoint and fix. It seems strange though that Ajax has such troubles since its based of an exsiting and mature vehicle. This hints at either poor integration of systems and modifications or changes to the basic layout without proper analysis and testing. If the latter is the case these proplems might not be fixable at all without a major rework.

It could equally be quality control problems which are possible to fix. Checking the published noise and vibration review, https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/ajax-noise-and-vibration-review, it states:

62. Noise and vibration in the Ajax family of vehicles have both electrical and mechanical origins from the following broad sources:

  1. Track, suspension and running gear, in particular the tension and sprocket design/track interface.

  2. Engine and its mounting into the vehicle.

  3. Quality issues associated with, but not limited to, inconsistent routing of cabling, lack of bonding and weld quality; all of which can lead to potential electromagnetic compatibility issues with communication equipment. As witnessed during trials, insecure components and bolting within the vehicle can also lead to noise and vibration, and again this was noted by ATDU crews.

  4. Headset performance and integration (noise only).

It looks like the reviewers have an idea of where the problems are and those noted are mostly things that can be addressed and finessed without starting afresh, the engine being questionable.

RovingPedant

From: RovingPedant

11/6/22

autogun said...

The story I have heard is as follows: CTAI designed their ammo feed together with the gun. The French adopted the CTAI package unchanged and it works just fine, but LM, who won the British contract for the Ajax turret, decided to design their own feed. Not good...

If you see the interior of the EBRC turret it looks like while they may have been to CTAI for the ammunition feed it's a feed system that hasn't been shown for any other installation i.e. it's a new or modified arrangement, not an existing one.

https://i0.wp.com/militaryleak.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/nexter-unveils-jaguar-ebrc-reconnaissance-vehicle-with-new-wire-cage-armor-1.jpg?ssl=1

Still, the weapon manufacturer ought to be able to integrate an ammo handling system to their weapon better than a third party.

 

autogun

From: autogun

11/6/22

Yes, you may be right that the French feed was not the original one, but it was, I believe, designed by the gun designers.

In reply toRe: msg 77
autogun

From: autogun

28-Oct

It has risen... https://www.overtdefense.com/2022/10/26/delays-to-uks-puma-replacement-tender-but-ajax-trials-restart/

The UK’s troubled AJAX armored fighting vehicle program has restarted after safety concerns for personnel halted the trials phase back in March. The safety issues included noise and vibration issues which left soldiers with permanent injuries. In May the In June, the Public Accounts Committee found that delays had been caused by a “litany of failures” and advised that the Ministry of Defence needed to resolve the issues or scrap the project.

In a statement to Parliament Minister of State For Defence Procurement, Alec Shelbrooke explained that the government’s concern is “the safety of our personnel, which has been at the forefront of the work that has been ongoing over the summer,” he continued “I am pleased to be able to inform the House that, following agreement from the AJAX Safety Panel, this work has led to resuming the User Validation Trials paused earlier this year and since Monday 10th October there have been eight days of trials.”

In reply toRe: msg 78
autogun

From: autogun

7-Dec

Further progress reported: https://www.overtdefense.com/2022/12/06/uks-trouble-ajax-afv-enters-next-trials-stage/

Minister of State for Defence Procurement of UK Alex Chalk responded

“Analysis of the data and crew feedback from the user validation trials has concluded. The trials successfully met their objectives to establish the effectiveness of the modifications proposed by General Dynamics to address the noise and vibration concerns on Ajax. The trials ensured vehicle crews remained safely within noise and vibration levels, allowing progression to the Reliability Growth Trials that we intend to commence in January 2023.”

Despite this step forward the program is severely delayed with the UK National Audit Office sayingback in March that AJAX is a year behind the program’s revised schedule. In June the Public Accounts Committee chairwoman Dame Meg Hillier said: “Enough is enough – the MoD must fix or fail this programme, before more risk to our national security and more billions of taxpayers’ money wasted.”

Back in October, the UK government announced that while User Validation Trials had paused earlier in the year, they had restarted on 10th October. January will see Reliability Growth Trials begin, the Tests are made up of a combination of qualification and verification activities including tests known as Battlefield Missions which replicate operational scenarios.

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