Hosted by gatnerd
This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.
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14/10/21
The CG is undeniably more destructive, in a shorter and lighter package.
I wonder how the accuracy and time of flight is at 1000-1500m? Even with the new FCS that corrects for drop, thats a hell of a ways for something firing at around 750-830fps.
I'm curious whether they've ever tried a tripod mounted CG to improve long range accuracy.
14/10/21
roguetechie said:I actually like the gm6 and the niche it puts itself in.
What niche is that? I'm sure that there's someone out there with a problem that would best be solved with a 23 lb. AMR that lacks the effective range of existing AMRs, but there can't be many of them. At least in a military context, the vehicle checkpoint HIPPITY HOPPITY STAY OFF MY PROPERTY role has been served for some time by something arguably more effective:
14/10/21
gatnerd said:I wonder how the accuracy and time of flight is at 1000-1500m?
HE 441D time of flight to 1000 meters = 5.1 seconds
p. A-8 ARN18072_TC 3-22x84 FINAL WEB.pdf (army.mil)
gatnerd said:I'm curious whether they've ever tried a tripod mounted CG to improve long range accuracy.
It can be fired from a bipod, but considering the ergonomics, I don't know if a tripod is feasible.
15/10/21
stancrist said:HE 441D time of flight to 1000 meters = 5.1 seconds
Excellent, thank you.
So for zapping any type of moving target, unless the target is driving straight toward the CG, that would really be an eternity. So that could be something where an AMR would be better.
1000m data was not shared, but the earlier slideshow had the 1500m flight time at 3.2 seconds.
That said, with the upcoming Guided Carl G / Guided AT4, which is designed to be able to fit moving targets via semi active laser guidance... probably easier to just snag those vs setting up a dedicated AMR weapons program (despite how cool a return to AMR's might be.)
In terms of Tripod for CG, I found this prototype...which as you predicted looks to have abysmal ergonomics.
For ergonomics there would likely need to be some sort of offset tripod, possibly using something like a Filmaking 'Steadycam' arm attached to the CG, which is supported by the tripod.
Like a much more robust stable version of this:
Alternatively, a tripod that clamps to the very muzzle end of the CG, allowing the gunner to stand/crouch behind the tripod to fire.
15/10/21
gatnerd said:So for zapping any type of moving target, unless the target is driving straight toward the CG, that would really be an eternity. So that could be something where an AMR would be better.
The shorter ToF would certainly be better for engaging moving targets. The question is, how much better would a 20mm AMR be?
As best I can tell from a brief search, currently available AMRs in 20x110 and 20x102 are either single-shot or bolt-action repeaters.
I wonder just how effective a bolt-action 20mm AMR would be in a scenario like that seen here: https://youtu.be/S4YRiJM-BLw?t=25
15/10/21
That was a great video.
Against that type of moving target it would have to be one hell of a crack AMR man.
17/10/21
I'd rather have an M2 or equivalent too but in situations where you can't have that for some reason this is a close second
18/10/21
roguetechie said:I'd rather have an M2 or equivalent too but in situations where you can't have that for some reason this is a close second
Nah. Maybe a distant third. First, the GM6 magazine holds only 5 shots. GM6 Lynx Semi Auto 50 BMG Bullpup - YouTube
Second, the GM6 magazine design is not conducive to rapid reloads under stress. https://youtu.be/6_sdpMHMFZs?t=165
Compare to the M82, which has twice the ammo capacity, and easier/faster reloading. https://youtu.be/UFB7-bvVKs8?t=5
But, whether the AMR is a GM6 or M82, I have to wonder how useful it would really be.
In many VBIED attacks there is no warning, and weapon types will make no difference.
Examples:
https://youtu.be/iJkutgFj_Vc?t=15
https://youtu.be/ZD_MQFius3A?t=15
Even in the one case I found like your postulated scenario, it's questionable if the outcome would have been any different with a .50 AMR.
18/10/21
Iraq and Syria seen bunch of these VBIEDs where the vehicle is seen well in advance and as they started using ever more armored vehicels up to an T55 hull without a turret you end up with need for a guided missile
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osblKE7TChE
But end of the day preparing for 3rd world insurgency and occupation of a country is not the same as preparing for peer warfare.
This seems to fit the bill antimeterial missile with 2km range.Lock on before launch fire and forget, Cant find the pict right now but i think chinese also presented one for use with RPG7
18/10/21
Mr. T (MrT4) said:Iraq and Syria seen bunch of these VBIEDs where the vehicle is seen well in advance and as they started using ever more armored vehicels up to an T55 hull without a turret you end up with need for a guided missile
Very true. However, now you're talking about a situation wherein the VBIED is being used to attack an enemy's frontline troops in a more or less conventional infantry battle in open terrain. When you can see and identify the threat at a distance of 1700 meters, a guided missile is the best tool for the job.
However, because of the extremely short distance to the target, a guided missile would be quite useless in the "checkpoint" scenario.
Mr. T (MrT4) said:But end of the day preparing for 3rd world insurgency and occupation of a country is not the same as preparing for peer warfare.
Actually, most equipment is the same. MRAPs may be substituted for IFVs, and some other adjustments made, but the same rifles, machine guns, mortars, artillery, helicopters, etc, will be used, whether counterinsurgency operations or conventional war.