gatnerd

Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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20x102 mm cannons   Army Guns 20+mm

Started 22/10/21 by Guardsman26; 6060 views.
In reply toRe: msg 27
gatnerd

From: gatnerd

25/10/21

In terms of .50's on RWS, is there any merit in switching from the M2 browning to the M3P version, which has 2x the ROF (1100rpm)?

To me this would seem a nice upgrade for the RWS, as it would allow a burst to put roughly 2x the amount of rounds on target in the amount of time as the M2, and the RWS would handle the recoil to ensure accuracy. 

That would seem to improve the chances of hitting moving infantry/vehicles, or having enough rounds hit an armored vehicle that one may disable an important sensor. All while keeping the same basic .50 setup and most of the same logistics.

Browning Fn M3M calibro .50

La prova a fuoco della mitragliatrice Fn M3M calibro .50, erede della leggendaria M2.

smg762

From: smg762

25/10/21

Whats the approximate core diameter of bog-standard .50 AP? (not SLAP) 

stancrist

From: stancrist

25/10/21

gatnerd said:

In terms of .50's on RWS, is there any merit in switching from the M2 browning to the M3P version, which has 2x the ROF (1100rpm)?

To me this would seem a nice upgrade for the RWS, as it would allow a burst to put roughly 2x the amount of rounds on target in the amount of time as the M2... 

That would seem to improve the chances of hitting moving infantry/vehicles... All while keeping the same basic .50 setup and most of the same logistics.

It sounds good in theory, but how much difference does it make in reality?

     M3 - https://youtu.be/gBcvKTYUFq8?t=19

     M2 - https://youtu.be/MWrthRBdhTA?t=1

Switching from the M2 to the M3 would have some significant drawbacks:

1.  It would consume ammo 2X as fast.

2.  It would burn up barrels 10X as fast.

3.  It would require buying a whole bunch of new manufactured M3 guns.

While FN would love the idea, I dunno if the gain would be worth the cost.

Farmplinker

From: Farmplinker

25/10/21

My understanding is that they are tired of having to retightening the bolts on the chopper after using the 30mm cannon. Less maintenance time.

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

26/10/21

Farmplinker said:

My understanding is that they are tired of having to retightening the bolts on the chopper after using the 30mm cannon. Less maintenance time.

That would be pretty weird, you'd imagine they'd have figured out some sort of Locktite like solution there in the last 40 years?

The Eurocopter Tiger uses a 30x113 GIAT, while Russia's MI28 and KA-52 use the even more beastly 30x165mm. I'd think at this point the 'copter mounted 30mm would be a non issue. 

smg762

From: smg762

26/10/21

Werent they considering the caseless Rmk30 for the tiger..

Can choppers use APDS or is it still too risky

autogun

From: autogun

26/10/21

smg762 said:

Can choppers use APDS or is it still too risky

The AH-1's M197 is cleared to fire MK149 (Phalanx) APDS ammo. I presume that the reasons are connected with the low mounting of the gun compared to the engine intakes, and the fact that the downwash from the rotor will push the sabot pieces even further away.

17thfabn

From: 17thfabn

27/10/21

Maybe there is more of a push for USMC AH-1 to be able to use the same ammo as the Phalanx system since USMC helos would spend a lot of time riding on USN amphibs. 

In reply toRe: msg 35
gatnerd

From: gatnerd

28/10/21

In terms of the .50 + ATGM option, Slovakia and Denmark will be fielding Kongsberg Protectors with M2's + Spike LR2 missiles. 

https://www.edrmagazine.eu/rafael-the-spike-lr-missiles-firing-was-performed-by-the-slovenia-armed-forces

https://euro-sd.com/2021/03/articles/exclusive/21921/denmark-spike-lr2/

Slovakia will use them on their JLTV's, while Denamrk will be mounting them on Eagle and Piranha vehicles. 

Spike LR2 is like a Javelin / TOW hybrid with a 5.5km range. It has the fire and forget, top attack, tandem warhead of the Javelin. But then it also has a built in fiber optic cable like the TOW, allowing it to be wire guided to attack targets that are beyond line of sight. The later option means the JLTV/Boxer etc could be hiding behind a hill, and using a drone to spot an approaching IFV, then guide the missile onto target using the fiber optic cable. 

stancrist

From: stancrist

28/10/21

gatnerd said:

Short term, I think probably the fastest, cheapest, and most bang for the buck option would be to retain the .50 RWS, and simply mount a coaxial missile system.

Reportedly the RWS on the UK Boxer is capable of mounting the Javelin missile.  https://youtu.be/228BDPppgHg?t=295

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