gatnerd

Military Guns and Ammunition

Hosted by gatnerd

This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

  • 3279
    MEMBERS
  • 186022
    MESSAGES
  • 8
    POSTS TODAY

Discussions

Poland deploying LMP-2017 60mm Commando Mortars    Army Guns 20+mm

Started 27-Oct by gatnerd; 932 views.
renatohm

From: renatohm

27-Oct

Brazil still uses the legacy 13 kg Brandt mortar, even at 8 kg this one would save enough weight to get two additional rounds.

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

27-Oct

renatohm said:

Pin them down at 1 km with NGSW then send some 60 mm mortars on them.

Absolutely. That was broadly my idea for dealing with body armor - focus on lightweight FA weapons to pin down enemy troops, and then use Squad and Platoon level HE to take them out. 

In terms of launcher and shell weight, thats a great point that the lighter mortar = more shells.

60mm is nice in that it offers a good bang to weight ratio:

LMP-2017 = 16.53lbs

60mm Shell = 4.4lbs

x5 = 22lbs

=38.53lbs for LMP + 5x rounds

Carl Gustav M4= 14.55lbs

Aimpoint FCS13RE = 3.53lbs

HE 441D Airburst = 6.83lbs

x3= 20.5lbs

= 38.53lbs for M4 CG w/ FCU + 3x rounds

So vs the CG, you also gain +2 shells. Although the CG is almost certainly more accurate. 

RovingPedant

From: RovingPedant

27-Oct

I’d hazard that the mortar throws a greater proportion of its round weight at the enemy too.

Mr. T (MrT4)

From: Mr. T (MrT4)

27-Oct

Honestly felt good enough for 'hand held' use , but would never consider it if they also had a bipod for more stabilty.  Can't imagine accurate fires at 1000m

stancrist

From: stancrist

27-Oct

What's the purpose of the HE frangible round?

stancrist

From: stancrist

27-Oct

renatohm said:

15m kill radius

Kill radius or casualty radius?

stancrist

From: stancrist

27-Oct

gatnerd said:

1500 steel balls, 4 mm in diameter

4mm is smaller diameter than the pellets fired from my nephew's BB gun.  neutral_face

stancrist

From: stancrist

27-Oct

gatnerd said:

So vs the CG, you also gain +2 shells. Although the CG is almost certainly more accurate.

Yup.  That +2 is not really the advantage it might seem.  https://youtu.be/kbbwDSM6f4Y?t=21

Handheld 60mm mortar.  Not exactly precise shooting.  https://youtu.be/qRCvoGRBjuw?t=75

Refleks

From: Refleks

27-Oct

stancrist said:

4mm is smaller diameter than the pellets fired from my nephew's BB gun.

I can definitely understand the sentiment, I was surprised to find claymores and PFF artillery ammunition often have fragments even smaller than that (on the order of 3mm).  Just one of the tradeoffs they had to make to ensure a sufficiently dense fragment dispersion to achieve a desired probability of a hit. 

  • Edited 27 October 2021 14:44  by  Refleks
gatnerd

From: gatnerd

27-Oct

stancrist said:

4mm is smaller diameter than the pellets fired from my nephew's BB gun.

Whats funny is thats actually 'large' in terms of fragments.

The DM51 hand grenade uses 6500 2mm bb's:

This is also why everything (30mm AC/ 40mm UGL / Hand grenades) all have the same 5m 'lethal radius' despite being wildly different in size and fragment count. 

Namely, that 'lethal radius' is determined by distance the fragments will penetrate a 2mm sheet of aluminum. Which due to the low weight is 5m. So a DM51 that puts like 10x fragments per m2 at 5m is rated the same a 40x46 that puts 1.5x fragments per m2 at 5m. Thats why I generally take any rated 'lethal radius' and cut it in 1/2. 

The Rheinmetal slide I got those specs for showed at 2.5m, there were ~10x the level of penetrations at 5m, and the frags were defeating IIIA armor + 2mm aluminum - aka actually lethal. 

More modern / $$ grenades and shells use Tungsten fragments instead of steel. For example the Korean hand grenades use 1300 tungsten BB's of 2-3mm diameter. Since they have 2x the weight, they are able to penetrate more effectively. SAAB's MAPAM shells and the latest CG 84mm rounds also use Tungsten frags.

I stumbled across an unusually detail grenade collectors website, which had this testing detail for the HG85 grenade. Whole website has a lot of data. 

https://www.lexpev.nl/grenades/europe/switzerland/hg85uehg85.html

@5m, 4-5 penetrations per m2, with each pellet (presumably tungsten) achieving 80j of energy. About the energy of a .22 Short 

  • Edited 27 October 2021 23:33  by  gatnerd
TOP