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50x228mm XM913 cartridge informations and questions   Ammunition 20-57mm

Started 2/11/21 by Augmentcore; 2779 views.
roguetechie

From: roguetechie

4/11/21

Ah yeah but that's not the niche I was thinking of for what I was talking about. I agree that there's better solutions for that application.

I also was thinking of ALP not Pele itself and ALP actually does utilize a small amount of explosive fill in order to help initiate the PELE style reaction.

The very specific niche I was talking about was for something that's somewhere between 13mm and say 19 mm projectile diameter specifically for smashing through jersey barriers, structural medium compression cinderblock walls or etc barricades ersatz armored technicals/vbied's and etc.

This is stuff we do enough of to be worth having a specific round to deal with it.

roguetechie

From: roguetechie

4/11/21

Ah yeah no, PELE  rounds are these very interesting projectiles which constructed with a purposely impedance mismatched inner and outer material and very clever internal geometry so that even though they don't contain explosive fill they will hit deform and violently "detonate" usually after partially or fully penetrating an intermediate barrier.

ALP rounds take the Pele concept and add some explosive fill to help reliably initiate the reaction and make it more explosive.

This is actually why I wanted something like them for the application I did because technically they're not "explosive rounds" for most ROE and safe explosive materials handling accounting and etc regulations.

There's administrative, combat doctrine, political, optics, and other advantages to this which makes them very attractive for the use case I was suggesting them for.

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

4/11/21

roguetechie said:

Ah yeah no, PELE  rounds are these very interesting projectiles which constructed with a purposely impedance mismatched inner and outer material and very clever internal geometry so that even though they don't contain explosive fill they will hit deform and violently "detonate" usually after partially or fully penetrating an intermediate barrier.

Do these PELE rounds have better penetration then an equivalent weight/energy tungsten core projectile?

And could they be scaled down to the more 6-8mm zone?

roguetechie

From: roguetechie

5/11/21

No definitely not to either.

Even a 12.7 PELE would probably be pretty difficult which is why I was thinking the 15-17mm range and the ALP explosive fill pumped versions for the specific application I was talking about.

From what I understand there's no reason why a 15-17mm ALP COULDN'T be done and you could definitely do it at 20mm.

As far as rifle caliber projectiles go I think we're kinda stuck with tungsten/DU.

Though on the rifle round side of things there's a guy on YouTube who's about to start selling "bushing style sabots" specifically to let you load 5.56 rounds in 7.62x39 cases to get around the Russian ammo ban.

In one of his videos he was getting 3218 fps from a 50 grain VMAX 5.56 projectile using iirc a 26 grain charge of h110 pistol powder out of a bog standard SKS without serious pressure signs from the primer/primer pocket.

What's even more interesting than the velocity in this case though was that he was halving 3 shot group size versus factory 124 grain ammo.

It definitely got my attention for sure.

https://youtu.be/eDHBcU9jECo 

Assuming that these are relatively cost effective, they're pretty interesting.

smg762

From: smg762

6/11/21

The drawback is that the sabot sides separate....sending the peices flying at angles which is bad when prone shooting

He even had to cover the chrony with wood in a different video....to protect it

Still, its puzzling why his petal sabots should be more accurate than normal sabots

roguetechie

From: roguetechie

6/11/21

Define normal sabots?

Because other than the old xcelerator sabots and the various revivals of them there hasn't been much saboted ammo commercially available and the cbjtech guy hasn't shared much in the way of results.

smg762

From: smg762

7/11/21

I meant their operation method.....xxellerator and CBJ stay in one peice.  This guy has petal sabots which may be a safety hazard

nincomp

From: nincomp

7/11/21

smg762 said:

The drawback is that the sabot sides separate....sending the peices flying at angles which is bad when prone shooting He even had to cover the chrony with wood in a different video....to protect it Still, its puzzling why his petal sabots should be more accurate than normal sabots

Are you referring back to this thread about sabotted 7.62x39 ammo? -  http://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages/7943/1  (Note: This post has has been repeated in that thread)

Yes, discarded sabots flying downrange have always been a problem.  They may still be a danger to current troops wearing full combat protection.   We only have the word of the fellow in the video that he has managed to come up with a much more accurate design.  His loaded ammo looks pretty much like the typical 7.62-to-5.56 sabot load, since the most widely available sabots have "petals" that extend beyond the case.  E. Arthur Brown Company (EABCO) has been selling this sabot, for example, for over 20 years:

Sweden once had a saboted sniper round that was sufficiently accurate for them.   IIRC, it was made by Winchester with a 4.81mm tungsten penetrator. 

7,62 mm Sk Ptr 10 PRICK

The only reason why discarded sabots are not considered a major issue with tanks is that in general, it is a very bad idea to be in front of a tank gun anyway.  

  • Edited 07 November 2021 9:36  by  nincomp
Gr1ff1th

From: Gr1ff1th

13/11/21

That is a monster vehicle

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