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Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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Australian NGSW   General Military Discussion

Started 5/11/21 by Gr1ff1th; 3583 views.
tidusyuki

From: tidusyuki

11/11/21

First thing i noticed was also how the grip and trigger module is attached on a rail. Looks like electronic trigger. Unless they have some way to make the trigger bar linkage adjustable. But that would mean the rail has full length hole.

RovingPedant

From: RovingPedant

12/11/21

An electronic trigger makes the most sense, provided that they achieve the same reliability as a mechanical system and can address the issue of running out of batteries.

There would also still be the issue of how to get the trigger signal back to the firing mechanism. Wireless is probably out on the basis of emissions and reliability. A flying lead would be simplest but potentially vulnerable. Electrical connection through the rail would be simplest for the user but it would have to be insensitive to other things being put on the rail.

In reply toRe: msg 13
stancrist

From: stancrist

12/11/21

tidusyuki said:

First thing i noticed was also how the grip and trigger module is attached on a rail.

Here is a different take on that:

"3D printed prototype.  It just looks stupid because they were too cheap to model a proper attachment method for the grip, so they slapped it on a pic rail."

https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/the-military-small-arms-other-weapons-discussion-thread.614068/post-80037547

Gr1ff1th

From: Gr1ff1th

13/11/21

Possibly, but if the smart rail trigger can be made reliable, then one of the major downsides to bullpups could be solved which was previously considered unsolvable, the LoP issue, along with the trigger, which leaves only the magazine placement as a concern

In reply toRe: msg 16
gatnerd

From: gatnerd

13/11/21

I wouldn't read too much into the design beyond the fact thats its a bullpup.

It's a 3D printed mockup lacking mag release, safety selector, charging handle - and even a barrel. 

That said, I said a few years ago (pre NGSW) that I expected to see bullpups become more popular in the future when smart optics and battery packs were developed, as the nature of a bullpup stock makes it easier to run internal wires / set up an electro mechanical trigger. 

The P90, for example, was designed to have an internal battery and laser sight built into the gun, while keeping everything completely hidden.

https://www.remtek.com/arms/fn/p90/laser/index.htm

In addition to being able to basically design the weapon around hiding wires and battery packs, the bullpup also allows a lot more space for installing an electro/electro mechanical trigger, as the real 'trigger' is in the stock, which offers a lot more design space then trying to stick the trigger in the pistol grip/receiver. 

So in general I think the bullpup offers a more easy to integrate architexture for a smart / electro rifle setup. Especially on a design like the AUG or F2000, where much of the rifle is polymer and easy to modify with a 'stock change'; modifying an aluminum bullpup like the RM277 would be much more difficult. 

stancrist

From: stancrist

13/11/21

gatnerd said:

I wouldn't read too much into the design beyond the fact thats its a bullpup.

It's a 3D printed mockup lacking mag release, safety selector, charging handle - and even a barrel. 

How can you tell the mockup has no barrel?

stancrist

From: stancrist

13/11/21

Judging by my personal experience with the AUG, and combat videos of Aussie and British soldiers, I don't know why magazine placement would be a real issue.

Gr1ff1th

From: Gr1ff1th

13/11/21

I was just mentioning it as the only truly unchangeable ergonomic downside, it's really a minor concern IMO, perhaps we will see a bullpup renaissance with reliable electronic trigger packs on picatinny  smart rails in the future, the layout certainly has impressive ballistic advantages when firing 80K PSI large bore cartridges, more so than it does firing conventional pressure small bore cartridges, also if i recall correctly Australia is expected to acquire TV ammo as part of their next modernization effort, perhaps their bullpup will be chambered in .277TVCM down the road

hobbes154

From: hobbes154

14/11/21

Interesting contrast with the Swedish thread:

The NGSW and associated developments have indeed been followed closely from Sweden, including being briefed directly by their US counterparts. In the end, the technological risk was judged too great for a small country to seek to join the program at this stage. 

But Australia, a slightly bigger country with a less impressive military/manufacturing industry, is not just seeking to join the NGSW program but to design and build its own equivalent? 

stancrist

From: stancrist

15/11/21

hobbes154 said:

Australia, a slightly bigger country with a less impressive military/manufacturing industry, is not just seeking to join the NGSW program but to design and build its own equivalent?

Well, Australia has a military rifle maker, whereas Sweden does not.  Perhaps that has something to do with it?

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