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Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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Future of Firearms...    General Military Discussion

Started 22-Nov by manimal87; 2600 views.
Guardsman26

From: Guardsman26

23-Nov

The best way to describe the FN Evolys is a belt-fed assault rifle. It does not have a user-removable barrel or a heavy barrel, so I am not convinced that it can deliver a sustained high rate of fire.  I'd as far to say that it is an answer to a question nobody asked. In fact, it was FN's submission to NGSW and was not down-selected. 

The British Army has retired its M249 / FN Minimis, because they could deliver a sufficient weight of fire at desired combat ranges. I think the Evolys is unlikely to be better since it is lighter and likely to reach critical operating temperatures sooner. The start point for any future squad level light machine gun has to be the FN MAG 58 (or H&K MG5). These are undeniably heavy, but when I served in the British Army we were happy to carry the L7 GPMG because of the weight of accurate fire it could deliver at 1,000+ metres. 

If we can get the calibre right, 6 mm or 6.5 mm, there will be some scope to produce a lighter machine gun. In any scenario, I doubt the weight can be brought much below 9 kg / 20 lbs.

We absolutely need to reduce the infantry soldier's weight burden, but this may be best achieved by reducing ammunition weight rather than weapon weight.

In reply toRe: msg 8
manimal87

From: manimal87

23-Nov

Or is it possible we se a resurrection of SMGs in future? Maybe with new pistol ammo (extented range + penetration) so HK 4.6 and FN 5.7 ammo is a pistol Caliber RIGHT? So they would be SMGs. They at least got NATO Standart as well some time ago.  If some of these maybe get successors and with possibility future warfare would be more urban.... A more compact weapon system with a high ROF would be preferable for CQC and max 150m or 200m.

Or is the pistol ammo (if 4.6 and 5.7 counts as pistol caliber?) dead end for military use in future in an SMG system? 

JPeelen

From: JPeelen

23-Nov

The M240 is really the Belgian FN MAG, originally introduced 1958. So you think its designer, the late Ernest Vervier, was among "some of the laziest, most complacent designers on the planet".  This line of thinking does nothing to improve the situation.   

Gr1ff1th

From: Gr1ff1th

23-Nov

Ernest didn't have access to Finite Element Analysis (FEA) software or high strength polymers in 1958 did he?, I'm not knocking the skill of the original designer, I'm knocking on the fact that since then engineering and materials science have come a long way, and FN until now has been fine just half assing things, like the M240L, where they just replaced parts with expensive titanium instead of actually making something good.

 

Gr1ff1th

From: Gr1ff1th

23-Nov

The Sig 6.8 LMG has a quick change barrel and only weighs 13.5 pounds, and I'm sure they can manufacture a heavy barrel if needed without too much of weight increase, there is clear room for improvement when we step away from 60 year old designs made on drawings and examples of post war MG42/MG32's which date back to the great depression. 

Msg 7958.14 deleted
In reply toRe: msg 13
manimal87

From: manimal87

23-Nov

Has anyone insight on the below question? 

"Or is it possible we se a resurrection of SMGs in future? Maybe with new pistol ammo (extented range + penetration) so HK 4.6 and FN 5.7 ammo is a pistol Caliber RIGHT? So they would be SMGs. They at least got NATO Standart as well some time ago.  If some of these maybe get successors and with possibility future warfare would be more urban.... A more compact weapon system with a high ROF would be preferable for CQC and max 150m or 200m.

Or is the pistol ammo (if 4.6 and 5.7 counts as pistol caliber?) dead end for military use in future in an SMG system? "

  • Edited 23 November 2021 12:49  by  manimal87
EmericD

From: EmericD

23-Nov

manimal87 said:

so HK 4.6 and FN 5.7 ammo is a pistol Caliber RIGHT?

I don't think that the 4.6 x 30 mm could be considered a "pistol" caliber, as no pistols are offered with this cartridge.

manimal87 said:

Or is it possible we se a resurrection of SMGs in future?

Difficult to say, but I would say "no". The US and UK, for example, didn't really see the need for a SMG before WWII, and it didn't took long for selective-fire rifles to replace SMGs, except for some usage (Stan maybe used a M3 during the '70s?)

The Soviet army used SMGs in very huge numbers during WWII, and those quickly disappeared once the AK arrived.

I mean, what is the point of a SMG when you could issue a SBR in .300 AAC?

stancrist

From: stancrist

23-Nov

EmericD said:

Stan maybe used a M3 during the '70s?

Yes, he did.  sunglasses

stancrist

From: stancrist

23-Nov

Guardsman26 said:

The start point for any future squad level light machine gun has to be the FN MAG 58 (or H&K MG5).

Nah.  https://youtu.be/c7RRSICANEw?t=17

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