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Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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Ukraine weapons thread   General Military Discussion

Started 24/2/22 by gatnerd; 189039 views.
Mr. T (MrT4)

From: Mr. T (MrT4)

19-Aug

If you are talking about upgrading Leo1 you are talking years , not months till delivery. 6months to a year is just getting the stuff from a scrap heap rebuilt to combat ready stage

255 rounds possibly years down the line. That is not about supporting Ukraine but really only about testing stuff in Ukraine.

https://soldat-und-technik.de/2022/08/bewaffnung/32586/praezisionsgelenkte-vulcano-artilleriemunition/?fbclid=IwAR2fL0-fC9c_BmSbjplxIKdamRQ4bIUvLtUNIlfJuLoA5SYlCj7dGt6WIF4

Meanwhile scraping the bottom of the barrel with these Bulgarian arms purchased for 200mio Eur trough Romanian middle man.

https://defapt.ro/romarm-rachete-ruginite-belaruse-pentru-ucraina/

https://youtu.be/lapwifXVgLw

stuff that then blows up on you

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKDKcJJdQkw

schnuersi

From: schnuersi

19-Aug

The Leo 1 would be needed to be upraded to some degree anyways. Its not like they are standing around, fully equiped just needing a new paint job. The electronics and optics need to be replaced or better reinstalled anyways. It is very unlikely that legacy optics and electronics would be reproduced for this. They will just install the currently available equipment. Which means an upgrade.

Yes UA will get ~250 Vulcano shells... which means all that are exsiting. 250 direct hits at 70 km is an awefull lot. And indefinetly more than none at all. I have no idea what you expect. Stuff that doesn't exist can not be delivered. The Vulcano stells will be delivered this year or next. If more are sent if needed when they become available remains to be seen.

The same is true for other weapon systems and munitions. If its not there it can't be delivered. Stocks are empty. Its that simple. There is allmost nothing left. Restarting production or ramping it up is easier said than done and takes time. Concidering the current state of the war it seems UA now has time while Russia is running out of it. So the deliveries so far achieved their goal. Prevent the collapse of UA. Now serious mid and long term planing can begin.

graylion

From: graylion

21-Aug

I really wish the SPD would grow a pair :(

schnuersi

From: schnuersi

21-Aug

graylion said:

I really wish the SPD would grow a pair :(

Well, if you ask me, I would have preferred if they would not have been elected in the first place. Allthough Laschet also isn't a top choice. This way the CDU at least can reorganise itself and find a way back to its roots. Which will increase the chances they will be elected next time and somthing will be done right after that.

The SPD IMHO is a lost cause. They will never grow a pair. Even currently they are pushed by the Greens, who supprisingly grew a very large pair, and the Liberals. In addition to the immense pressure from other EU countries and the US. I really think without this the SPD wouldn't have acted on the Russian invasion at all.

graylion

From: graylion

21-Aug

Being an old SPD member I hate to agree with you. But it had its day. The Greens are the future.

schnuersi

From: schnuersi

21-Aug

graylion said:

The Greens are the future.

This thought is outright scary!

schnuersi

From: schnuersi

21-Aug

Oh yes!
And scary is very mild and reserved.
We talk about people who have only one topic and are allmost completly detached from reality. They are docmatic to the point of pseudo religion. Just as with any religion scientific facts have no meaning for them. Their decisions are entirly based on their dogma and they equal it with truth and the moral good. As a direct result large parts of the base of the green party are anti democratic and thus potentially dangerous.

If they are the future... its a very dark one.

graylion

From: graylion

21-Aug

I heartily disagree, but this argument does not belong here.

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

21-Aug

schnuersi said:

heir decisions are entirly based on their dogma and they equal it with truth and the moral good.

I'm not too hip with German politics as a whole, but as a nuclear power fan, I've come across many an article about the Greens absurdly dogmatic anti-nuclear stance. Which of course is anything but 'green' as nuclear is the most successful carbon free energy production method.

This one from today - even in the face of a looming energy crisis due to Ukraine war, they still wont keep the existing nuclear plants open:

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/german-minister-rules-out-keeping-nuclear-plants-running-save-gas-2022-08-21/

This anti nuclear dogma apparently extends to viewing Lignite Coal - one of the most C02 emitting of all power sources - as 'greener' then coal. 

...

In Germany's defense though, US 'green' activists are no less dogmatic or impractical. 

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