gatnerd

Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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Ukraine weapons thread   General Military Discussion

Started 24/2/22 by gatnerd; 396524 views.
gatnerd

From: gatnerd

10/5/23

The NLAW is a bit of that, pretty straightforward single purpose anti-tank design. For a semi-guided ATGM $30-40k is considered 'cheap.' 

By comparison I just read a report that the Javelin's new Lightweight CLU is $350k, which is totally insane. Worse, only about 180 LCLU's are made each year.

I wonder how much the self contained SPIKE-SR costs?

....

In terms of cheap ATGM, I wonder whether a short range, shoulder launched drone would be cheaper then a ATGM? Like a Switchblade 600 that only has to be able to fly 1-2km?

  • Edited 10 May 2023 17:52  by  gatnerd
gatnerd

From: gatnerd

10/5/23

The US remains a shameful pussy about ATACMS, while the UK is putting the 'Great' in Great Britain again by providing Storm Shadow.

https://www.politico.com/newsletters/national-security-daily/2023/05/09/no-atacms-to-ukraine-following-u-k-move-00095936

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storm_Shadow

British Patriotic Song: Rule, Britannia!

"Rule, Britannia!" is a British patriotic song, originating from the poem "Rule, Britannia" by James Thomson and set to music by Thomas Arne in 1740. It is s...

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

10/5/23

And in more Ukraine effect / a meme I could not resist:

stancrist

From: stancrist

10/5/23

Interesting.  I was under the impression that Japan is located thousands of miles away from the North Atlantic.  confused

farmplinker2

From: farmplinker2

10/5/23

The British aren't really "the dread and envy of them all" anymore though.

Mr. T (MrT4)

From: Mr. T (MrT4)

11/5/23

China - Japan - US .Has nothing to do with Ukraine and day by day less to do with democracy as it seems Western countries are racing China for the most autocratic spied upon regime we can still wrap into hair thin cellophane of democracy thanks to MSM propaganda machine.

By any objective metrics, democracy is long gone what we now have are sort of fascist autocracies, folks just don't understand that for most people change from democracy to an authoritarian regime is imperceivable so folks are in denial of actual state . Nazis and Communists said and promoted their model as democracy, same as today whatever regime can pretend to be a democracy with a strong MSM propaganda machine.

By any standard its harder to vote out a senator or a congressman than a CCP politician. Getting a third party on a ballot is about as doable as running against CCP with a new party.

Any and all tensions with China are drummed up in Washington, fearing the demise of its hegemonic power cajoling of serfs like  Japan is just part of the process.

mpopenker

From: mpopenker

11/5/23

funniest thing is that most Western countries, starting with the USA, are not democracies themselves, both technically and in a spirit of things

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/03/america-is-not-a-democracy/550931/

and while US claims to be all pro-democratic, they have a long and spectacularly bloody history of supporting a broad variety of authoritarian, totalitarian and generally bad regimes across the world. So, for them the "democracy" is just a convenient tag that could be attached or detached at their own whim.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Condor for example.

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

11/5/23

farmplinker2 said:

The British aren't really "the dread and envy of them all" anymore though

At least for today they are:

Mr. T (MrT4)

From: Mr. T (MrT4)

11/5/23

Honestly the part about supporting dictators while preaching democracy is not new or even problematic . countries have interests, not friends Bismark said and its 100%true

Much post WW2 Europe was in run on the authoritarian system almost into late 70's , Spain,Portugal,Grecce,Turkey and many other countries had strong autoritarian streaks . so up to 80's there is little Liberal democracy to be seen even in Europe. but compared to today most had more freedom in the 80s and 90s than today, Stazi that was so despised in the 80-90s would now look like regular boyscouts. Merger of corporate and governmental powers with little if any oversight is at its core fascism no mater how much cellophane you wrap it in.

Orwells 1984 is being enacted at the blistering speed these days. 

Any ways politicians do what politicians do but please just refrain from using democracy a justification for anything its as real as freedom fries.

schnuersi

From: schnuersi

11/5/23

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

Much post WW2 Europe was in run on the authoritarian system almost into late 70's , Spain,Portugal,Grecce,Turkey and many other countries had strong autoritarian streaks . so up to 80's there is little Liberal democracy to be seen even in Europe. but compared to today most had more freedom in the 80s and 90s than today, Stazi that was so despised in the 80-90s would now look like regular boyscouts. Merger of corporate and governmental powers with little if any oversight is at its core fascism no mater how much cellophane you wrap it in.

Are you on Drugs?
Most of post WW2 Europe indeed had been ruled by authoriatarian systems but not because of the three countries belonging to NATO (Turkey is not part of Europe BTW) but because of the Iron curtain and the communist dictatorship.
Downplaying the inhuman and brutal Stasi is just so far out it makes me wonder if you ever read a history book. These people routinely incarcerated and murdered people. For no good reason and with no resposibility to anyone. Writing they look like boyscouts nowadays is utter bullshit. These guys where on par with Gestapo, KGB and all the other murderous secret police organisations that scourged the world during the Cold War.

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

Orwells 1984 is being enacted at the blistering speed these days.

Did you even read 1984? If yes its obvious you did not understand.
There is a huge difference. The lack of data protection in the internet is not a feature its a bug. Furthermore people are fulle aware and decide to (mostly) ignore the matter. If they would not and awareness would impact the current business models things would change in record time. The surveilance by western inteligence agencies, while certainyl questionable, doesn't lead to people disappearing. They do not incarcerate and murder critics or people they do not like. They are held responsible. Even people who are convicted of terrorism have rights. Its not even the same sport as what autoritarian regimes did and do.
In 1984 and real authoritatian regimes people have no say. They also get no information. Most important they have no rights. All of this is so much not the case today its not even comparable to the situation during the Cold War era or the fictonal history in 1984.
There are a few places that fit the Orwellian dystopia on earth these days. The most obvious one is North Korea. They a pretty damn close. Including the use of new speak with death due to famine relabled to population density adjusments or such BS. A runner up is China. There is none in Europe or the "Western World". Not even most of the less developed countries qualify.

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