Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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Ukraine weapons thread   General Military Discussion

Started 24/2/22 by gatnerd; 395230 views.

From: farmplinker2


"The Most Dangerous Sporting Clays".

Mr. T (MrT4)

From: Mr. T (MrT4)


Given the short practical range of a shot gun buckshot , it most likely did not hit the drone.


From: gatnerd


Yes, there would really need to be a dedicated anti drone load to have any chance.

Something like the federal 'flite control' wad that holds on the pellets tightly together as a near slug for the first 15-25 yards before falling away, and loaded with tungsten shot made with proper spherical shot. 

Even then it would be pretty meh given the speed and difficulty seeing a drone. 

American 180 loaded with tracers would be better:

"Laser Beams" Full Drum of .22 tracer through an American 180

Title says it all. American 180 packed full of piney mountain .22 tracer. Only thing missing is the storm trooper outfit. Thanks to TacticalNooB42 for recor...

Mr. T (MrT4)

From: Mr. T (MrT4)


For now, EW is by far the best protection, DIJ and DIY drones are not designed to work with interference so can be hijacked with relative ease, and lots of chicken wire for protection against RPG carrying drones , altough new FPV drones use simple naked wire fuze so the chicken wire doesn't help much

Basicaly wires intermeshed but not touching till the impact makes a short circuit, 

FPV drones are now being manufactured by the thousands 

DNR group claims to be now ramped up manufacturing of near 1000 kamikaze drones per month , 7 inch kamikaze drone is sub 300$ build , most expensive are the Googles with the controller. While cheap to manufacture ,but i reckon FPV drones for now have relatively low effective rates as they are quite demanding to pilot i would be suprised if 1:5 makes it to enemy positions.  Much more dependant on operator skill than any ATGM


From: autogun


Those vertically-stacked twin mountings are Russian 25mm 2M-3M. Built in the 1950s for naval use, they seem to have cropped up in various places since... 


From: stancrist


Interesting modification.

New Russian Abomination - MTLB with a Naval AA gun

Recently, some pictures and videos of modified Russian MTLB APCs with AA guns surfaced on the internet.Patreon:

Mr. T (MrT4)

From: Mr. T (MrT4)


Some tidbits from the field of drone warfare in Ukraine and Russia

Commercial drones like DIJ  'switch sides' all the time as the losses to EW are typically landed without much damage, and both sides have teams collecting these drones that then have software 'reflashed' for new owners. Something near impossible with military-grade drones . Commercial drones are actually designed to be vulnerable to EW as that is demanded by law enforcement agencies around the world , hence 10.000 lost drones per month.

EW against FPV drones is often a game of chicken as the EW effectiveness strongly diminishes with distance So EW gunners with handheld EW guns need to stand their ground in the face of incoming kamikaze drones, as the loss of video or control is often happening only very close to the 'gunner' and drone might still impact but the likelihood of hitting the intended target is very low if the feed was interrupted as quadcopters do not have a glide angle without power to the motors. Maintaining charged batteries on the front is a challenge as EW guns burn through batteries relatively fast , military grade drones are evolving to nonstandard frequencies to avoid the EW guns so its a constant adaptation game. Lots of supposed military grade drones , nearly all made in Ukraine use unhardened commercial transmitters so are easily taken down with EW   

FPV drone pilot's job is quite risky as their positions are extremely easily triangulated with passive sensors, so the use of repeaters is expanding, incoming FPV can often be detected with the aid of mobile phone apps.

Initially, DIY FPV drones had extremely low availability rates as many different and incompatible guidance and streaming types are made by folks donating them to soldiers on front lines,  lately bigger foundations and charities that make standardized designs and the manufacturing is being centralized so that drones function where ever they end up. couple thousand monthly being produced

SAM vs Drone wars, the best systems seem to be the ones with command-guided missiles not those with homing heads(heat signature is negligible), the multiple benefits are , missiles are super cheap(rumored up to ten fold difference in cost) the brain is in the launcher. an added benefit is that software upgrades upgrade the whole system, missiles need no even relatively old stock of missiles get a considerable boost in efficiency

The main issue with fighting drones with legacy systems is fusing these command-guided missiles as they were designed to shoot at planes, fusing is calculated to ensure max fragmentation of x number of fragments per square meter of the plane surface when detonated Y distance from the target  and drones being very small means X can be very low with same Y,  the fusing had to optimized for smaller targets, that is supposedly the mayor change that enabled GLMRS missile intercept rates to climb dramatically, detonating the warhead closer makes for a denser fragment field  ,drones and GMLRS missile are relatively non-challenging targets.The myth that drones are low radar observable because of composites is BS. relatively low RCS is purely due to size but often propellers reflections make up for smaller size, initially, the main limitation was the software that to aggressively filtered out of small and slow targets (birds and UAVs) 

Note SAM warheads do not have a circular fragmentation pattern but rather a cylindrical so ideally they detonate a broadside to the target  , radio command SAMs also often attack from the top to give the radar clearest tracking of both interceptor and target, these parameters had to be adapted to better engage smaller targets like missiles and drones.

There is an interesting video of a Supercam drone being attacked by Crotale system , the same type of system that downed the Bayraktar over Kiev, and it illustrates the whole fusing issue as missiles are detonating in front and in the rear of the drone but too far for a dense fragmentation field and at one point a fragment impacts the drone and cuts a wire sending the camera gimbal into 360 rotating motion while the drone was able to make it back and live to fight another day. 

GPS signal is practically dead in Moscow due to active jamming supposedly making lots of trouble for taxi drivers, drone attacks into Russia are seen beside the PR as an effort to force pull of SAMs from front lines ( for protection of Moscow they estimate they would need  over 50 Pantsirs to get even close to 100% coverage), fighting drones kinetically in a city is seen as an extremely bad option so EW is primary defense, they estimate 90+% of Kiev damage to residential areas is from stray Air defense missiles, current Ukrainian drones have very small warheads that are often homemade so most do not even detonate, and are in  some ways posing less of a threat than SAMs themselves particular if any larger systems would be used with 100+kg warheads

Interesting tidbit around Geranium aka Shaheds drones , folks that work on drone electronics , say that these drones used in Ukraine are visibly downgraded models , as they say electronics packages recovered and documented so far show there are number of expansion ports 'iranians' made that are not being used in these versions , given what has been seen in Iran shaheds have lots of upgrades availible  , so folks assume its ither Iran supplying export -Monkey models or monkey models being manufactured under license in Russia , reasons for monkey model is probably lower cost .

Everything that goes up must come down

Dashcam video captures missile debris falling near Kyiv car

Follow The Straits Times on YouTube: camera captured the moment when part of a missile fell next to a car driving down a Kyiv r...


From: gatnerd


Great drone info, thanks.


From: gatnerd


Some long range strike, possibly Storm Shadow:


Another video of port. Damage unknown

Range comparisons relative to port:

First person view inside a Russian Pantsir hit by FPV drone. In 2nd video, it seems they attempt to shoot it down with a burst of AC cannon fire but miss.

Japan helping with US HE shortage:

Russia working on their own HIMARS type vehicle. Wheeled, guided MLRS, estimate of 150km range (2x GMLRS, or equal to plans for GMLRS-ER)

T90M destroyed by precise artillery fire:

  • Edited 02 June 2023 23:17  by  gatnerd