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Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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Ukraine weapons thread   General Military Discussion

Started 24/2/22 by gatnerd; 157609 views.
schnuersi

From: schnuersi

26-Apr

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

Looks like some of them were already found by locals in Ukraine after one of them killed a farmer on tractor

Very unlikely.
The one one the picture has not been deployed. Its new and unused.
The white cap in the mittle above the broad connector is a safety cap. Its has to be removed to ready the mine, connect it to the sensory circuit and arm it. If its still there the mine has not been armed.

Also the PARM is triggered by a wire sensor that is put over a road or track. Unless the farmer moved on a track secured by the Ukrainian military, on Ukrainian territory it seems very unlikely that a farmer in a tractor gets struck by one.
Unless of course the framer and his tractor where send down this track by Russian troops to "find" mines.

schnuersi

From: schnuersi

26-Apr

The big new today is that Germany will now supply Gepard SPAA to Ukraine.

Which means now the discussion about direct delivery of heavy weapons has come to an end: Germany is delivering and will train Ukrainian soldiers.

Mr. T (MrT4)

From: Mr. T (MrT4)

26-Apr

You can imagine one captured is not one that blew someone up ,no one claimed its the exact mine, in what scenario is a retreating force not leaving mines set up behind? and which tracks used by armor are not used by locals? Armor still mostly uses public roads ! 

schnuersi

From: schnuersi

26-Apr

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

You can imagine one captured is not one that blew someone up ,no one claimed its the exact mine

You wrote it was found. Which is not the same as caputed. Found suggests that it was found deployed and defused.
 

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

in what scenario is a retreating force not leaving mines set up behind?

That is pretty common. Its effective and simple. I would mine allmost every square meter of ground I would have to give up as long as I have mines and any perimeter of any defensive position. Mines are one of the most effective anti armor tools.

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

and which tracks used by armor are not used by locals?

In allmost any case. Especially this one. The Ukrainian locas would have fled and chances are high they are aware that mines have been planted. Since the locals that have not fled are actively involved in the defensive effort. The Russian invasion troops also do not allow the locals to move around as they please. So the story makes no sense. BTW where is any evidence? Pictures of the destroyed tractor? Witness reports? Anything substancial and at least half believable?

stancrist

From: stancrist

26-Apr

schnuersi said:

Found suggests that it was found deployed and defused.

Nope.  It could just as well have been found undeployed, new and unused, left behind by soldiers as they hurriedly departed the area. 

There have been other stories of weapons and/or ammo found abandoned by Russians.  Mr. T's original comment was perfectly okay.

stancrist

From: stancrist

26-Apr

taschoene said:

It's...a rocket with a HEAT warhead...

Yes, that's what I said.  sunglasses

-------------------------------

BTW, I was just attempting to make a little joke.  I learned many years ago about off-route mines.  Using a HEAT rocket in this manner was taught by the US Army during WW2 (see 18:21-18:45 in https://youtu.be/IRPsxgOozqk?t=1101 ). 

Nevertheless, it has always seemed rather silly to me for a remotely-fired rocket like PARM 2 to be called a "mine".

Msg 7993.527 deleted
gatnerd

From: gatnerd

26-Apr

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

One wonders how much of the supplied heavy weapons can actually be used in combat, heavy armor particularly anything tracked needs a bunch of maintenance to keep running and some of the supplied gear has not moved at all in a decade or so

That is reportedly a main rationale for the US sending towed artillery pieces as opposed to SPGs - low maintenance. Hitch one up behind a Ukrainian tractor and its gtg. 

...

More broadly these issues of maintenance do speak to the use of technicals / armed civilian vehicles for smaller countries defense forces due to their higher reliability and simplified logistics. 

These little armed off road golf carts are likely to have more tank/ifv kills then these older donated tanks, while also being much easier to hide from air attacks. 

A lightly armored Toyota (armored against small arms and shell fragments) with a CROWS RWS would be a compelling option as well. Either with a .50 + Javelin or even a 30x113mm as seen here:

APWKS would also be another option:

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

26-Apr

schnuersi said:

The big new today is that Germany will now supply Gepard SPAA to Ukraine

I found the term 'flakpanzer' especially cool when looking those up.

Whats the general condition / effectiveness of those? Wiki says they were phased out in 2010.

And can they fire the newer 'AHEAD' rounds, or mostly just the APDS frangible loads? 

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