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Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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Ukraine weapons thread   General Military Discussion

Started 24/2/22 by gatnerd; 161098 views.
schnuersi

From: schnuersi

26-Apr

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

You can imagine one captured is not one that blew someone up ,no one claimed its the exact mine

You wrote it was found. Which is not the same as caputed. Found suggests that it was found deployed and defused.
 

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

in what scenario is a retreating force not leaving mines set up behind?

That is pretty common. Its effective and simple. I would mine allmost every square meter of ground I would have to give up as long as I have mines and any perimeter of any defensive position. Mines are one of the most effective anti armor tools.

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

and which tracks used by armor are not used by locals?

In allmost any case. Especially this one. The Ukrainian locas would have fled and chances are high they are aware that mines have been planted. Since the locals that have not fled are actively involved in the defensive effort. The Russian invasion troops also do not allow the locals to move around as they please. So the story makes no sense. BTW where is any evidence? Pictures of the destroyed tractor? Witness reports? Anything substancial and at least half believable?

stancrist

From: stancrist

26-Apr

schnuersi said:

Found suggests that it was found deployed and defused.

Nope.  It could just as well have been found undeployed, new and unused, left behind by soldiers as they hurriedly departed the area. 

There have been other stories of weapons and/or ammo found abandoned by Russians.  Mr. T's original comment was perfectly okay.

stancrist

From: stancrist

26-Apr

taschoene said:

It's...a rocket with a HEAT warhead...

Yes, that's what I said.  sunglasses

-------------------------------

BTW, I was just attempting to make a little joke.  I learned many years ago about off-route mines.  Using a HEAT rocket in this manner was taught by the US Army during WW2 (see 18:21-18:45 in https://youtu.be/IRPsxgOozqk?t=1101 ). 

Nevertheless, it has always seemed rather silly to me for a remotely-fired rocket like PARM 2 to be called a "mine".

Msg 7993.527 deleted
gatnerd

From: gatnerd

26-Apr

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

One wonders how much of the supplied heavy weapons can actually be used in combat, heavy armor particularly anything tracked needs a bunch of maintenance to keep running and some of the supplied gear has not moved at all in a decade or so

That is reportedly a main rationale for the US sending towed artillery pieces as opposed to SPGs - low maintenance. Hitch one up behind a Ukrainian tractor and its gtg. 

...

More broadly these issues of maintenance do speak to the use of technicals / armed civilian vehicles for smaller countries defense forces due to their higher reliability and simplified logistics. 

These little armed off road golf carts are likely to have more tank/ifv kills then these older donated tanks, while also being much easier to hide from air attacks. 

A lightly armored Toyota (armored against small arms and shell fragments) with a CROWS RWS would be a compelling option as well. Either with a .50 + Javelin or even a 30x113mm as seen here:

APWKS would also be another option:

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

26-Apr

schnuersi said:

The big new today is that Germany will now supply Gepard SPAA to Ukraine

I found the term 'flakpanzer' especially cool when looking those up.

Whats the general condition / effectiveness of those? Wiki says they were phased out in 2010.

And can they fire the newer 'AHEAD' rounds, or mostly just the APDS frangible loads? 

BruhMomento

From: BruhMomento

27-Apr

golf carts with anti tank??? this is comical 

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

27-Apr

Comical yet proven on the battlefield:

Ukrainian Special Operations Forces fire a UTV-mounted 9M111 Fagot ATGM at Russian targets

Ukrainian Special Operations Forces fire a UTV-mounted 9M111 Fagot anti-tank guided missile system at Russian targets#StandWithUkraine? #StopRussia #ArmUkrai...

I've seen multiple versions of this basic setup.

Vehicle is the surprisingly capable Polaris cart, which are tailor made for off road use and can haul 500lbs of stuff in the back, and capable of ~50mph on paved roads, and gets ~25mpg. Its also narrow enough to travel along narrower trails then a conventional vehicle. 

https://ranger.polaris.com/en-us/ranger-xp-1000/

Its a similar concept to the 'Desert Patrol Vehicle' dune buggy previously used by US SF:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desert_Patrol_Vehicle

And US SF and Marines are also looking into larger polaris cart-jeep hybrids for themselves, although as transport rather then tank destroyers:

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2019/12/22/marine-corps-tactical-dune-buggy-getting-bunch-new-upgrades.html

  • Edited 27 April 2022 2:09  by  gatnerd
schnuersi

From: schnuersi

27-Apr

gatnerd said:

Whats the general condition / effectiveness of those? Wiki says they were phased out in 2010.

They have been phased out in 2010. Allthough for budget reasons. Not because the system was not effective or not usefull. The current condition is ok-ish. Not great but they can be refurbished quickly.

gatnerd said:

And can they fire the newer 'AHEAD' rounds, or mostly just the APDS frangible loads?

To my knowledge they currently can't. This upgrade among others was discussed befor the phase out but not implemented because of it. Especially against helicopters the FAPDS is very effective. I guess not so much against small drones.

Back in the day we often trained with Gepard units. Several times I have seen them on a shooting range. They system is pretty impressive. To my knowledge it was never used in combat befor so we will have to wait and see how it works out.

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