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Ukraine weapons thread   General Military Discussion

Started 24/2/22 by gatnerd; 161099 views.
stancrist

From: stancrist

26-Apr

taschoene said:

It's...a rocket with a HEAT warhead...

Yes, that's what I said.  sunglasses

-------------------------------

BTW, I was just attempting to make a little joke.  I learned many years ago about off-route mines.  Using a HEAT rocket in this manner was taught by the US Army during WW2 (see 18:21-18:45 in https://youtu.be/IRPsxgOozqk?t=1101 ). 

Nevertheless, it has always seemed rather silly to me for a remotely-fired rocket like PARM 2 to be called a "mine".

Msg 7993.527 deleted
gatnerd

From: gatnerd

26-Apr

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

One wonders how much of the supplied heavy weapons can actually be used in combat, heavy armor particularly anything tracked needs a bunch of maintenance to keep running and some of the supplied gear has not moved at all in a decade or so

That is reportedly a main rationale for the US sending towed artillery pieces as opposed to SPGs - low maintenance. Hitch one up behind a Ukrainian tractor and its gtg. 

...

More broadly these issues of maintenance do speak to the use of technicals / armed civilian vehicles for smaller countries defense forces due to their higher reliability and simplified logistics. 

These little armed off road golf carts are likely to have more tank/ifv kills then these older donated tanks, while also being much easier to hide from air attacks. 

A lightly armored Toyota (armored against small arms and shell fragments) with a CROWS RWS would be a compelling option as well. Either with a .50 + Javelin or even a 30x113mm as seen here:

APWKS would also be another option:

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

26-Apr

schnuersi said:

The big new today is that Germany will now supply Gepard SPAA to Ukraine

I found the term 'flakpanzer' especially cool when looking those up.

Whats the general condition / effectiveness of those? Wiki says they were phased out in 2010.

And can they fire the newer 'AHEAD' rounds, or mostly just the APDS frangible loads? 

BruhMomento

From: BruhMomento

27-Apr

golf carts with anti tank??? this is comical 

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

27-Apr

Comical yet proven on the battlefield:

Ukrainian Special Operations Forces fire a UTV-mounted 9M111 Fagot ATGM at Russian targets

Ukrainian Special Operations Forces fire a UTV-mounted 9M111 Fagot anti-tank guided missile system at Russian targets#StandWithUkraine? #StopRussia #ArmUkrai...

I've seen multiple versions of this basic setup.

Vehicle is the surprisingly capable Polaris cart, which are tailor made for off road use and can haul 500lbs of stuff in the back, and capable of ~50mph on paved roads, and gets ~25mpg. Its also narrow enough to travel along narrower trails then a conventional vehicle. 

https://ranger.polaris.com/en-us/ranger-xp-1000/

Its a similar concept to the 'Desert Patrol Vehicle' dune buggy previously used by US SF:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desert_Patrol_Vehicle

And US SF and Marines are also looking into larger polaris cart-jeep hybrids for themselves, although as transport rather then tank destroyers:

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2019/12/22/marine-corps-tactical-dune-buggy-getting-bunch-new-upgrades.html

  • Edited 27 April 2022 2:09  by  gatnerd
schnuersi

From: schnuersi

27-Apr

gatnerd said:

Whats the general condition / effectiveness of those? Wiki says they were phased out in 2010.

They have been phased out in 2010. Allthough for budget reasons. Not because the system was not effective or not usefull. The current condition is ok-ish. Not great but they can be refurbished quickly.

gatnerd said:

And can they fire the newer 'AHEAD' rounds, or mostly just the APDS frangible loads?

To my knowledge they currently can't. This upgrade among others was discussed befor the phase out but not implemented because of it. Especially against helicopters the FAPDS is very effective. I guess not so much against small drones.

Back in the day we often trained with Gepard units. Several times I have seen them on a shooting range. They system is pretty impressive. To my knowledge it was never used in combat befor so we will have to wait and see how it works out.

schnuersi

From: schnuersi

27-Apr

BruhMomento said:

golf carts with anti tank??? this is comical

Every solution that compensates for the shortcomings of a system without compromising its strength is a good one.
The shortcoming of an ATGM system is mobility. Its strength is small size. So the smallest vehicle that can give it the required mobility is the best solution.

The German Wiesel ATGM carrier basically is a golf cart with tracks. Its also a bit more durable with very light protection but its of the same size.

Such simple ATGM carriers are also dirt cheap.

The downside is they are still highly suceptible to autocannon and artillery fire.

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

27-Apr

schnuersi said:

To my knowledge it was never used in combat befor so we will have to wait and see how it works out.

That will be exciting to see how it works then, given how long it has been in service.

Its a super cool looking vehicle.

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