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Ukraine weapons thread   General Military Discussion

Started 24/2/22 by gatnerd; 188766 views.
Mr. T (MrT4)

From: Mr. T (MrT4)

21/5/22

What you see in daily propaganda reels is 95+% Ukrainian footage from drones when they have something that looks like winning, what you don't see is the flip side when they are being hammered and in most cases, for both sides, there is no footage of that , when you read the reports from the foreign fighters returning from Ukraine most tell a much different story than is being spun by MSM, only some reports in small print weeks after the action that resulted in xyz casualties that are acknowledged weeks or even months later typically only ones they mention are the pilots. So the 'reality' we are presented is a collage of selected snapshots that inevitably paints a sqewed picture. 

We are still in the stage where MSM is telling us Patriots are absolutely taking down all the scuds, only to find out later they hit jack shit.

A sporting analogy to a war reality show we are seeing:

You and I go shoot some clays , let say 100 each , you hit 60  i hit 20 , i also need to keep my sponsor impressed so i post 15 videos of hitting clays you post 5 , my 40 friends repost my vids and here and there some vids are cut and reposted so there are 60 vids of me hitting clays and maybe 5 of you that are in addition posted on a different much more obscure server . Who do you think is overwhelmingly winning it according to folks that only know what was going on based on vids and my statement where i boasted of my achievements  . That is what Ukraine war reporting is like.

Indeed and even in drone footage you often do not see the infantry that is hidden, obstructed etc , but end of the day every BTR, BMP, MLBT and many trucks etc brought in troops, and considering they like to ride on top of them , they are already disembarked when we see the APCs in action.  

I also understand that tooth to tail ratio is these days 16% in US (augmented when some of the tail is substituted by contractors in policing actions like Afghanistan Iraq ) and maybe 22% in Russian military , Ukrainian tooth to tail ratio is probably higher . Total number of troops in Ukraine is probably well over a Million, considering Ukraine has been drafting folks for 3 months. (They just passed a law that could strip citizenships from eligible males that dodged draft , traveled abroad and haven't returned)

Somewhere in Kiev

stancrist

From: stancrist

21/5/22

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

What you see in daily propaganda reels is 95+% Ukrainian footage from drones when they have something that looks like winning, what you don't see is the flip side when they are being hammered and in most cases, for both sides, there is no footage of that...  So the 'reality' we are presented is a collage of selected snapshots that inevitably paints a sqewed picture.

Yeah, I realize that, but it's not what I'm asking about.

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

Indeed and even in drone footage you often do not see the infantry that is hidden, obstructed etc...

That is an example of the reality I was referring to.  If you do not see infantry in a video, of course it could be because they are hidden from view.

However, we do not know if that actually is the case.  It could just as easily be that we do not see infantry in a video because no infantry is there.

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

21/5/22

when you read the reports from the foreign fighters returning from Ukraine most tell a much different story than is being spun by MSM, only some reports in small print weeks“

Could you suggest some of the outlets covering these stories? It would be great to get a more detailed / nuanced analysis of what’s happening on the ground, but it’s hard to know where to look.

Mr. T (MrT4)

From: Mr. T (MrT4)

21/5/22

Google for couple of minutes plenty to be found . But the story they tell is much the same and very much unlike what MSM is painting. 

Two months after responding to President Volodymyr Zelensky's call, sniper Wali is back in Quebec – unscathed, although he nearly lost his life there “several times”. But most foreign fighters who have visited Ukraine like him have come away bitterly disappointed, mired in the fog of war without even having been to the front lines once.
''
In the end, he himself said he only fired two bullets into windows “to scare people” and never really came within enemy firing range. Many arrive in Ukraine with their chests bulging, but leave with their tails between their legs "It's a war of machines", where the "extremely brave" Ukrainian soldiers suffer very heavy losses from shelling, but "miss many opportunities" to weaken the enemy because they lack knowledge technical military, he summarizes. “If the Ukrainians had the procedures we had in Afghanistan to communicate with the artillery, we could have caused carnage,” he believes.

https://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/2022-05-06/retour-du-tireur-d-elite-wali/la-guerre-c-est-une-deception-terrible.php

schnuersi

From: schnuersi

22/5/22

It is well known that the Ukrainians are not exactly thrilled by foreign people wanting to fight for them. There are good reasons for that.

They deliberatly keep foreign fighters at an arms length and do not deploy them to the frontline. They also don't pass any substancial information to them.
This of course leads to a lot of people leaving and feeling offended. Which of course has influence on their reports and the stories they tell.

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

where the "extremely brave" Ukrainian soldiers suffer very heavy losses from shelling, but "miss many opportunities" to weaken the enemy because they lack knowledge technical military, he summarizes. “If the Ukrainians had the procedures we had in Afghanistan to communicate with the artillery, we could have caused carnage,” he believes.

How does he know that if he has not been t the front line once? Because two lines above it stated exactly that. At best it is hearsay.

Mr. T (MrT4)

From: Mr. T (MrT4)

22/5/22

Use the google  translate , sniper 'Wali' has been to the front lines both in the north at Irpin and Donbas and has seen combat it just turned out a bit different than he expected , mostly being on receiving end, the part you quoted he says that most foreign fighters never get to the front lines ,first Ukrainians can't integrate them ( folks that don't speak the language and many aren't even trained) , second, they are so poorly equipped many don't want to fight with what they consider no gear and for many getting shelled and bombed in the barracks was war enough.

His team mates interview

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ukraine-russia-canadian-forces-1.6443048

https://time.com/6168064/foreign-fighter-ukraine-frontline/

https://www.vice.com/en/article/y3v4xj/joining-ukrainian-foreign-legion

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltxaSooKfhY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoKnhXnp-Zk&t=1440s

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

22/5/22

Marlets continue to be used successfully as MANPADS against UAS:

This is very cool; Polands version of the 'iMortar' lightweight commando mortar:

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

22/5/22

And just to help put artillery into perspective, a cross section of a 155mm shell - thats a lot of steel.

17thfabn

From: 17thfabn

22/5/22

gatnerd said:

And just to help put artillery into perspective, a cross section of a 155mm shell - thats a lot of steel.

Fragments are the main killer with an artillery projectile. That steel will turn into thousands of deadly fragments.

Mr. T (MrT4)

From: Mr. T (MrT4)

23/5/22

This hand grenade bomblet looks almost industrial grade , injection molded not 3d printed.

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