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Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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MGs   Small Arms <20mm

Started 9-May by graylion; 9635 views.
EmericD

From: EmericD

18-May

graylion said:

But manufactured in .ch and can't be shipped to a war zone ...

C'est l'histoire de l'arroseur arrosé... (sorry, it's in French but I can't resist).

graylion

From: graylion

18-May

EmericD said:

C'est l'histoire de l'arroseur arrosé

help please ;) google translate is not making a lot of sense ...

EmericD

From: EmericD

18-May

graylion said:

help please ;) google translate is not making a lot of sense ...

The German government had a large record of not allowing the exportation of several French-German joint products, or even French products that used German parts...

  • Edited 18 May 2022 12:04  by  EmericD
stancrist

From: stancrist

18-May

graylion said:

       EmericD said: C'est l'histoire de l'arroseur arrosé

help please ;) google translate is not making a lot of sense ...

This may not help either, but it appears to be what he's referring to.

The Watered Sprinkler - Wikipedia (fr-m-wikipedia-org.translate.goog)

graylion

From: graylion

18-May

teehee! thanks!

In reply toRe: msg 163
schnuersi

From: schnuersi

18-May

EmericD said:

The German government had a large record of not allowing the exportation of several French-German joint products, or even French products that used German parts...

Basically every government has such rules. The US have ITAR. That is nothing special... as such.
The German rules used to be "no defense products into crisis regions". Which has been controversial to say the least. Especially the definition of what a crisis region is. This rule has been dropped since the invasion of the Ukraine. Which also was very controversial
The Swiss government has rules that are tied to their neutrality status. Delivering weapons to an active war party could compromise that so they forbid it. This has so far not been a problem. I am convinced that 99,99% of our politician and high ranking MoD officials have not been aware of this at all.

taschoene

From: taschoene

18-May

And Switzerland is making some noises about being willing to "backfill" inventory sent to conflict zones by others (so, if Germany ships its 35mm to Ukraine, Switzerland could be willing to resupply Germany, but not supply Ukraine directly).  Which leaves an interesting question of how long the inventory has to be in German possession first.  Is 24 hours long enough?

EmericD

From: EmericD

18-May

schnuersi said:

Basically every government has such rules.

Yes, but not every governments signed a treaty to explicitly avoid this pitfall (for France and Germany, it's the "Schmidt-Debré" MoU of 1971-72), and this treaty says that neither the French, nor the German government, should block exports of common products to third parties...

schnuersi

From: schnuersi

19-May

EmericD said:

Yes, but not every governments signed a treaty to explicitly avoid this pitfall (for France and Germany, it's the "Schmidt-Debré" MoU of 1971-72), and this treaty says that neither the French, nor the German government, should block exports of common products to third parties...

To my knowledge the Smidt-Debré treaty is still in effect. I also don't know any examples of when Germany blocked the export of a common product to a third party.
What I do know is that this treaty is highly controversial in both France and Germany for several reasons. Mostly because the wording of the treaty is so soft it can easily be interpreted in any direction.

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