Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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Rheinmetall Panther 2 KF51 Tank with 130mm   Army Guns 20+mm

Started 14-Jun by gatnerd; 5466 views.

From: schnuersi


Mr. T (MrT4) said:

later the T62 was created as a response to L7 and M60

The developement of the T-62 is not linked to the L7 but to the fact that the 100 mm D-10 can not penetrate the frontal armor of the Centurion and M48. The M60 has nothing to do with that.

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

anything in the west till T64 was ready.

This is also not true. The T-64 originally was supposed to carry a gun of the same caliber as the T-62. The 125 mm was developed later.

The problem with angeling is that its situational and usually not under the crews control. Again a prime example is the Goland Heights '73. The T-55 and T-62 have been shot at from elevation. Which meant the impact angle was worse than it theoretical could have been. With very nasty results. The very same thing would have happened at several places should the Cold War have gone hot. With NATO tanks in defensive positions shooting at the attacking Soviets and WP allies from elevated positions.

I did mentioned their protection against APDS was okish but HEAT and HESH could have easily defeated them. All of these ammo types have been available for the 90 mm and 105 mm. Why should the NATO troops not have used them?

The picture you posted also underlines the vastly improved effectiveness of APFSDS over APDS. KE is the abrevation used in Germany for APFSDS.

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

I am not suggesting they are using the same tech as in the 50-60's

I did not mean that. The concepts and thinking is also vastly different. The tech is the obvious and visible part.

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

if you are using same tech and materals smaller hull can better protected or weigh less at same protection levels .

Yes, so?
This alone is not false but mostly meaningless. Weight is like protection its matters in distinct levels. If the requirement is to fit two into a C-17 you need to have the proper dimensions and weight less than 38,5 t. If you managed that you are good. Why try to get the weight lower? There is no bonus of overachieving. If the requirement would have made absolutely minimising the vehicle height necessary they would have done this. Seems like this was not required.


From: graylion


stancrist said:

"The KF51 Panther can be easily updated and equipped with the latest capabilities and functions. Its advanced, modular, open NGVA system architecture enables iterative development, which can then be updated in harmony with innovation cycles." ^^ ...Sure they never mention any modularity or options. Precisely where in those statements do you see mention of any options for coax weapons?



From: stancrist


graylion said:

       stancrist said:  Precisely where in those statements do you see mention of any options for coax weapons?


The statement about "modular, open NGVA system" refers to electronics, not weapons.

NATO Generic Vehicle Architecture – NATO Generic Vehicle Architecture (


From: stancrist


17thfabn said:

I get the impression the new light tanks will only go to light divisions such as the 82 nd Airborne, 101st Air Assault, 10 th Mountain etc.

Yeah, the 82nd has been wanting a replacement for the M551 Sheridan ever since it was retired in 1996.

M551 Airborne Reconnaissance Assault Vehicle aka Sheridan Tank M551 Sheridan was developed to provide the US Army with a light armored reconnaissance vehicle with heavy firepower. The ...

Explaining the MPF Light Tank's Future Role (U.S. Army)

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Mr. T (MrT4)

From: Mr. T (MrT4)


IF Elbit Light tank offering is any orientation, as it built on same platform just with 105 cannon instead of 120mm, this thing is armored to level 4 so 14.5mm HMG everything else will be up armoring packages

If anyone is interested in scans of the old Leopard 3 proposal.