Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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Radar for SPAAG   Army Guns 20+mm

Started 19-Jan by graylion; 2213 views.

From: Refleks


I was talking more of a Gepard / Tunguska setup where dual radars are common on one vehicle, but you could of course offload the search radar to another platform to cue the SPAA and feed CBR data to the AMOS


From: graylion


Refleks said:

MMW is millimeter wave radar, higher resolution than Ku and used in active protection systems for ATGMs (would also work well against really small drones) but also more weather related attenuation 

Do we then still need the Ku band radar if we have EO and MMW? SkyRanger doesn't seem to think so


From: Refleks


It depends.

Even if MMW radar attenuates faster than Ku and X band, it still has advantages over EO when there is poor optical visibility (ie, fog, dust, smoke). Some sources say it's useful out to about 5km which sounds reasonable and this exceeds the effective range of the SPAA cannons so it should theoretically be fine as an engagement radar as an alternative to Ku (around 8 km) as long as its cued by an onboard or offboard search radar so it knows where to look if the inbound is fast, like a HARM. 

That being said, the radars used as part of an active protection systems may not be enough to reach that 5km; they may be operating at lower power for instance, for LPI (low probability of intercept) reasons, so it's harder to detect the emissions.  In that case, it might warrant a separate engagement radar.

I don't know of any SPAA system that uses MMW as an engagement radar currently other than in the APS or weapon role (brimstone). 

  • Edited 21 January 2023 13:19  by  Refleks

From: graylion


well, one thing one could do is to simply make the front sensor of the (presumably flat panel) MMW more powerful to provide the necessary target designation?


From: Refleks


Yep that should work


From: graylion


The other thing I am wondering about is sticking the search radar on the SPAAG and feeding CBR data to the AMOSs.

Mr. T (MrT4)

From: Mr. T (MrT4)


Korean SPAAG added a anti drone secondary radar and optional laser , its likely the only way to go , SPAAG itself with gun only is kinda hard to keep as an antidrone defense as modern optics enable drones to stay out of spaag range fairy easy . 

But i also imagine with all the gizmos this will be a 15+mio$ SPAAG

Primary Armament: Anti-aircraft gun
Secondary Armament: Surface-to-air missile (short / medium range)
Tertiary Armament: Anti-tank guided missile or Laser (optional)
Primary Sensor: 3D air search radar
Secondary Sensor: Counter-drone radar
Tertiary Sensor: Electro-optical sensor (option)

The concept that looks like its a german turret , the mockup is quite different.


From: renatohm


But i also imagine with all the gizmos this will be a 15+mio SPAAG

And here lies the beauty of drones - they're dirt cheap but dealing with them is expensive like heck!


From: graylion


Mr. T (MrT4) said:

SPAAG itself with gun only is kinda hard to keep as an antidrone defense as modern optics enable drones to stay out of spaag range fairy easy . 

depends on the drone I'd say. Guns are very valid against the quadcopters etc IMO.


From: graylion


I am actually thinking a 4 panel FP version of the Giraffe 1X for both scan and FC with EO as secondary system. Plus 2*4 StarStreak and 2 laser designators for StarStreak (laser beam rider) for more target engagement capability. As regards the gun - Gepard seems to be getting APDS-T, so is completely hittile. Drones get downed with 6 round bursts. AAA-T ammo should be able to do that with a single round.



2x4 StarStreak

Giraffe 1X FP



sound good?

And yes, not cheap.