This is a place for friendly and civil discussion of horse racing of all types including handicapping.
Latest 6/13/18 by RAESFAN
Latest Aug-10 by DogsUp
Latest Aug-10 by princeofdoc
Latest Aug-9 by PISTOL9
Latest Aug-9 by DogsUp
Latest Aug-5 by namilliron
Latest Aug-2 by ChiefsCrown
Latest Aug-1 by Wintertrian
Latest Jul-27 by smartyslew
Latest Jul-23 by zowcownow
Latest Jul-21 by Husker (Birdman506)
Latest Jul-16 by princeofdoc
Latest Jul-15 by ChiefsCrown
I have not seen those but I learned a lesson that I wish I was still ignorant about and I feel stupid for not taking the reason Hope was in the race seriously enough when the draw came out. I agree with Steve that Justify didn’t need the help and it’s a bad look on the ownership. Just one more black eye I’ll have to swallow if I’m to continue to be a fan of the sport I guess because I agree we’re going to be seeing this more and more. Maybe this stuff has been going on for decades and I was simply naive and under the impression that the sport had more integrity than it ever actually had? It saddens me because I actually like Justify but he’ll forever have a little asterisk next to his name in the back of my mind, especially when I think of some that never got their TC like Smarty because of the way they were ganged up on.
Thanks for the article Winter, that was awesome. That man needs to write a book.
part of it for Baffert is being a savvy businessman,he trys to keep all of that good
team of his out of the spotlight and pay them enough to keep them happy and stay
jimmy barnes and his wife Dana have had offers to work for others
and BB pays them enough to keep them from going out on their own.
you don't hear much about new trainers learning there trade from Baffert
like you do learning with Lucas.
Baffert is very good at the sales and has a good eye for potential talent.
you don't hear to much about the jealousy from florida and kentucky
like 10 years ago when he buys horses out from under them at their sales.
most on here know his known negatives and his experiments with drugs and feed
with all of those positives i wonder why he has the needs to be a head of the known
level playing field. must be greed
i read your article after my last post.
thank you it was well written.
it would be nice if Baffert would take him to a big race like Lucas did with Winning colors.
Bob Baffert going on the way to winners circle said paraphrased: Great to be an American, got help from Upstairs, and a mention of parents. At trophy presentation acknowledged team. Way after everybody left the TV screen.
At trophy presentation mentioned staff and crew. In DR F article pre-Bel Stks the exercise rider could speak to the press and be quoted. Back @ Am Pharoah owner and trainer made generous donation of win $ in 6 figures.
On the topic of how long has the sport been rigged? If you have the occasion to find it, the legendary horse bettor, Pittsburgh Phil (aka George E. Smith) wrote a book that was published right after his death in 1908. Fascinating because it shows the level of shenanigans (including doped up & hopped up horses) that went into scoring at the bet level.
From that point, and probably before, there began the rise of organized crime getting into the game & bending results however they could into their favor financially. There is stuff out there to read if you want to.
Since the 1970s it's morphed into a chemical war. This part most are familiar with.
There have always been cheaters in horse racing. The small scale operations to the big operations.
The rise of conglomerates is the new age of bending the sport to one's considerable will & financial clout to do so. O'Brien may be different from Baffert but Coolmore & Winstar have much in common. I mention that only because O'B & BB came up in discussion. Look at any major operation & follow the money back to its various sources & it's no different to the bettor than when organized crime had the game by the throat.
I'm not saying a fix is always on or that it even always works for the manipulators. Keep in mind, they are the biggest bettors of all so they can lose as long as they win (somebody was tossing around the number 60 million already in the bank for Winstar before the Belmont was even in the books) BIG regularly, what do they care? It's "legal".
part of that will be who to leave out of a race that can comprimise for the biggest return on their money invested. all legal and randomly done before and more often part of a cappers nightmare to go with the special feed.
I am kind of torn on this.I wanted Mike Smith to get the triple crown but I liked Seattle Slew being the only undefeated tc winner.My only gripe about Restoring Hope is that I thought he had an outside chance to hit the board if allowed to run his race.At least it wasn’t as blatant when Winstar won with Creator(using Gettysburg)
I don't have any issue with the races or the conditions of them. That is out of everyone's control ( I think ). his Belmont was what 2:28? That is respectable. He did get away with some soft early fractions. I did not like the tactics with RH, they did not need to do that. I view that different than running a rabbit. Rabbits do not directly interfere with paths or alter them, just add some pressure. I had mentioned when it was announced he was entering RH about him interfering with Shared Belief, not once but in two races. I think that is classless. I think Vino was the only one who was able to give him a little bit of a challenge. I have to watch replay again, I have read some things that they may have cut off Tenfold and let Gronk skip through a hole because of it.
My biggest issue, I am not sure what others here think, but I have often mentioned how he gets horses to run farther than their pedigree suggest to me. None of his recent ones looked like standouts from a traditional pedigree standpoint that I have seen in the past. Since 2105, he has had three once in a lifetime horses. AP did not wow you looking at him, but watching him run in person did to me. Did not see Arrogate in person. I've never seen a horse in person with the muscles Justified has.