Horse Racing Forum

Hosted by Cindy Dulay (CindyDulay)

This is a place for friendly and civil discussion of horse racing of all types including handicapping.

  • 472
    MEMBERS
  • 25564
    MESSAGES
  • 1
    POSTS TODAY

Discussions

Rebel Stakes March 13 Oaklawn Park   Triple Crown

Started 3/11/21 by Wintertrian; 3074 views.
SameSteve G

From: SameSteve G

3/22/21

"I can only judge that Geroux gave the horse a bad ride"

Prince, we've all been saying the horse should have been allowed to run.  That point is not in question.   I fully agree it was a bad ride.

The conversation WT & I were engaged in had to do with whether or not Geroux was a good fit.  Winter was of the opinion that FG was the "wrong rider" for the horse.  That was the gist of her post several posts back in this thread.

I disagree on that point but agree Caddo River should have been allowed to run like Geroux allowed him to run in the previous two races.

I like the horse, as well.  Hard Spun was a free runner.  Remember how the ill-fated & tragic GoGo put a choke hold on him in The Belmont in 2007?

princeofdoc

From: princeofdoc

3/22/21

I attempted to address this too, Steve.....my first paragraph was devoted to the perspective that there are no bad fits for great jockeys.  If Geroux is a bad fit for Caddo, he is not a great jockey, imho

smartyslew

From: smartyslew

3/22/21

I still say the winner beat him to his spot and took his game plan away ,and i don't think the horse 

liked it. A good athlete loses to another Athlete because they had a better plan on a giving day.

IMO they got outplayed. Don't compare Golfers to Duffers, lol . Maybe it was an Equipment change

that effects the mouth. I've heard people say that Baffert is a great Equipment Changer with lots of works before they race and he notices things to help breath better or bits and equipment that helps performance.

It isn't just feed. Bruno De Julio says there are left handed horses and right handed horses and he 

thinks that effects training of horses including jock rides. Back to elite golfers Tiger Woods wouldn't

play good with lefty's equipment or vise a versa. Maybe it was a right handers bit and equipment

on Caddo' nose who runs like a lefty.   

RAESFAN

From: RAESFAN

3/22/21

Could it have been the jock got bad instructions?

SameSteve G

From: SameSteve G

3/22/21

Just read a little article in the BH in which Brad Cox says he is pointing the horse to The Arkansas Derby, barring any unforeseeable set backs.

He deserves another chance.  I like it.

SameSteve G

From: SameSteve G

3/22/21

I think it's possible but not very likely.  It appears to me from the replay that once Concert Tour cleared in front of Caddo River, Geroux decided not to try to press Concert Tour & wrangled CR under a stout hold.  The horse was eager to run.  

In review, it would have been to Caddo River's advantage if Geroux had made it tougher for Concert Tour to cross over & steal the front so early from outside.  He may have discouraged that one & the roles in the race would have been reversed.

I certainly cannot say for sure.  Just interpretation.

At this point, it's in the books!  I'm glad Cox is going to give Caddo another chance in The Arkansas Derby.

Plus2lbs

From: Plus2lbs

3/22/21

Possible an aggressive ride would of worked..

He's not known as Go Go Geroux...fo sho..

  • Edited March 23, 2021 6:20 pm  by  Plus2lbs
RAESFAN

From: RAESFAN

3/22/21

I liked Caddo River. I’m willing to give him another shot as well.

Wintertrian

From: Wintertrian

3/25/21

princeofdoc said...

A great rider can never be a "bad fit" for a horse.....

Technical skill isn't the kind of magic I'm speaking about though.     

Call it Kismet between an animal and a human ----  hard to put your finger on, but it happens and it's very real. 

Animals have preferences

It goes beyond the technical skills of a rider......it's something they can't make happen.  There is no doubt animals will perform certain things for some people and not for others.  

I look for that at the track.  I like to see how the jockey communicates w/horse before they start riding.  How do they reassure the horse, or calm them if needed, or how do they communicate their "leadership" to the horse?   The horse is not the leader, just like the dog isn't.  
It is always up to the human to be the leader with pack type animals.   They wait on your cue,  they need to be able to  *read* you.   This is why I like to see same jockey on a horse if the horse has been consistent under them.   Changing the rider isn't always a good idea. 

The fact that Caddo River wasn't reading Geroux, isn't a good sign.  Caddo was not "going for" whatever it was Geroux *wanted* him to do.   That is always a bad sign, horses usually do not win races that way.   The rider/horse has to be AS ONE.  When you see them getting out of synch, fighting each other, too much energy is lost. 

Steve --- I was neglectful though as you noted that perhaps it was Cox who gave instructions.  I had not actually considered that. 

At any rate, there is the possibility that everyone failed the horse this day......OR.......Caddo River just got up on the wrong side of the bed.  They are not machines.   So in the final analysis, we don't know where to place blame. 

BTW, an interesting side note about what the pandemic has done for dogs.....they have had less multiple people contact, so less running up to them to place unwanted touches, etc. Not all dogs like attention from strangers. The good-natured ones will put up with you and so you won't notice it as much.      If you own cats, you already know they don't like being touched in certain places.  Its a trial and error thing you have to figure out......and for you, that can be painful.  LOL  

I think horse-for-the-course is appropriate but so is rider-for-the-horse?  That said, I doubt there will be any kind of rider change on Caddo River and I hope he is in a better frame of mind in the AR Derby.  



 

Wintertrian

From: Wintertrian

3/25/21

SameSteve G said...

Hard Spun was a free runner.  Remember how the ill-fated & tragic GoGo put a choke hold on him in The Belmont in 2007?

That is an excellent example.  Finesse is not data that is presented on the PPs.  

Once they are not operating "as one" it's all over. 

TOP