I am guessing they may have peaked before the derby

Totally unrelated;Classic Causeway is back in the derby.Leparoux will ride per DRF

Its only part of the data for the angle that hasn't been presented on here..............yet............maybe.

Its like a Halley's comet window of time. A old boy told me once ,he didn't think the December and January foals

got enough Sunshine. I didn't look before 1960 derby looking at Foal dates, Mares age for that day and the number of crops

for the Dam, Nick, Family , RF's , The  Data on each side some are runners other are producers, It's a Good angle for Future bets

also. 

Maybe Over due, he can still be on a ticket .its not the only angle for the win.

It might be in part where it is born at, North South east west weather conditions might be part.

His dam is 12 and her 6th crop  . If a double digit Dam age on the Foal Date and if its more than her 4th crop in this

case the 6th crop  the sire, horse or Dam one of them needs the Rf and Epicenter has Something Royal 2s Rf

Thru Secretariat the Number one Rf you want, thats part of the rest of the story with more coming down the road

Keep you hands off the Panic Button. (Not you Gerh)

Wait. What?

What you just said, can you read Messier's pedigree in the same language you just wrote? Maybe I can follow you better using this pedigree. Thanks! 

Definitely good angle for future bets, my main interest anyway.....also racing debut.  Very few that debut in May or June ever win Derby; I think most winners debut in Aug or Sept., with a few in Oct/Nov.

Message 893 was meant for you Gerh ,I jumped ahead to another step on the angle I'm working on

for Epicenter and all , its not just the foal date, there is more. Check it out.

That use to be, we are in the age of Apollo and the window time frame might be 20 years at a guess .

I'll put the Next step up tomorrow  for the angle 

Messier has the goods big red and Buckpasser up the middle in a Passing Position.
Has a strong Derby Nick Sire/ Bms has won derbys

The angle I was working with updating Epicenter for Gerh

for Messier his dam is 9 on foal date ok under 10 years

her 3rd Crop hits the 4 and under that produces derby winners 
Princequillo and Latroienne in a Passing Position

Blue Blood imo.