princeofdoc said...

Here is an interesting article, with some debate on the use of Lasix.....Romans is emphatic that it's actually good for his horses' health.

There is a reason almost every jurisdiction worthy of respect in the world doesn't use lasix.   It's only good for horses "who shouldn't be racehorses in the first place."   That's how Hong Kong handles it.  You bleed, you are given conservative treatment and time off.  You come back 1x or 2x as a higher level bleeder, it is deemed that you are not a good candidate to BE a race horse, and are found a different career. 

This is how it should be.  

Not every horse bred to be a flat racer is cut out to actually be one.  If you have to become a drug addict in order to perform your duties, then it's cruel not only to the horse but to flat racing in general.  

I default to what michael Bowen at Old Friends said, he is the "receiver" of many retired race horses, and his vet told how it is often difficult to even FIND a good vein by which to inject necessary medications (to keep horses comfortable and healthy) because they've been "shot up" so many times over their lifetime.   How anyone can interpret this as "good for horses" is beyond me.  

Maybe good for pocketbooks and careers of trainers and owners though. 

Thanks Pistol, 

I understand your take on it better, Like you mentioned for me its the use of the lasix

My concern is Overstacking to many meds masked with lasix hiding pains that

have the potential to have something break down that isn't safe for anybody from the exercise rider

to the whole field of Horses and Jocks safety . Sometimes I try to think like I'm the Horse and

nobody asked me how I feel about it. Check out the Horses 1st Lasix races the numbers for some

that jump anywhere from 5 pts to over 20 points and in some cases that is their top

or the ones whose numbers go down after are red flags for me, its the best use of using speed numbers

imo. Of course most horses racing with lasix are following the rules by their Trainer , its the firsters

because they can(Why) and the big jumps in the numbers for some and not others.(why)

Thanks for the refresher Tex, If we only know the with now ,and not instead of.

and in some cases they test positive for a banned substance and not racing with Lasix.

And we still throw money at them. Insanity by the numbers.

princeofdoc said:

Pace.....no matter what it looks like on paper, there WILL be a pace in the Derby.  Probably when it looks like there won't be, it will be the fastest, like the last two years.

No kidding. When was the last "paceless" Derby?  2002 with War Emblem maybe? (where the first 3 finishers ran 1-2-3 at every call)?  

This year, one look at the BRIS PP's and all the E types entered should have made it abundantly clear this wasn't going to be paceless.  Arguably it predicted a suicidal pace, which we got.  That's just the American racing style.  We train the horses to run that way and our jockeys ride the races that way.

I guess when Repole Saturday said only 1% of trainers are cheaters he knew Forte Failed the Drug

test in The Hopeful last September, I guess we will wait and see what the spin is hopefully later

today.

Repole.  LOL.  He was pissed because he had like 300 people at Churchill.  LOL.  He's good with the crocodile tears, though.  A solid 10 outta 10. 

TexSquared said...

for the Japanese to win this race they need to use jockeys proven on our shores. The Derby just seems to "play" differently from any other major race in the world, including the Arc de Triomphe, Dubai World Cup, Hong Kong Cup, or Melbourne Cup.   It's not an "international" race by any stretch. 

Pletcher has entered 64 62 horses into the Kentucky Derby, sometimes more than 1 horse entered in the race.......and only won twice. 

How many horses have the Japanese entered in the KY Derby?

When they get up to 64, then we'll talk.  


In the meantime, let's name the jockeys on the 62 horses that Pletcher ran in the KY Derby who didn't win..... and put them on the YUCK list?  :)

Maybe I should revise my comment to -- the Japanese and UAE Derby losing streaks would have been over by now had those horses been ridden by U.S. jockeys?  

Or going the other way, how many international races has Pletcher won?  I don't think he's even won the Dubai World Cup, a race written specifically to attract the best U.S. dirt horses over.

The international horses should use American jockeys in the American Classics.  The jockeys that have ridden in the US classic on international horses are all great jockeys, without a doubt, but it's a matter of context.

However, we all know, and especially the Derby, is not a race that translates well for international riders.  I would expect The Belmont to be the first one to fall if a good international horse and rider combination try it.

Pletcher, not the jockeys, are the reason he is 2 for 64.  Let's not conflate Pletcher's abject cluelessness about getting a horse ready to run his best in the KD with the riders.

Even the older Mike Smith would have moved Derma Sotogake up and there is no question Chris Lemaire is the better rider of the two currently.

The Belmont fell in 1990 when Dermot Weld and Mick Kinane teamed up with Go and Go.