princeofdoc said:

Pace.....no matter what it looks like on paper, there WILL be a pace in the Derby.  Probably when it looks like there won't be, it will be the fastest, like the last two years.

No kidding. When was the last "paceless" Derby?  2002 with War Emblem maybe? (where the first 3 finishers ran 1-2-3 at every call)?  

This year, one look at the BRIS PP's and all the E types entered should have made it abundantly clear this wasn't going to be paceless.  Arguably it predicted a suicidal pace, which we got.  That's just the American racing style.  We train the horses to run that way and our jockeys ride the races that way.

I guess when Repole Saturday said only 1% of trainers are cheaters he knew Forte Failed the Drug

test in The Hopeful last September, I guess we will wait and see what the spin is hopefully later

today.

Repole.  LOL.  He was pissed because he had like 300 people at Churchill.  LOL.  He's good with the crocodile tears, though.  A solid 10 outta 10. 

TexSquared said...

for the Japanese to win this race they need to use jockeys proven on our shores. The Derby just seems to "play" differently from any other major race in the world, including the Arc de Triomphe, Dubai World Cup, Hong Kong Cup, or Melbourne Cup.   It's not an "international" race by any stretch. 

Pletcher has entered 64 62 horses into the Kentucky Derby, sometimes more than 1 horse entered in the race.......and only won twice. 

How many horses have the Japanese entered in the KY Derby?

When they get up to 64, then we'll talk.  


In the meantime, let's name the jockeys on the 62 horses that Pletcher ran in the KY Derby who didn't win..... and put them on the YUCK list?  :)

Maybe I should revise my comment to -- the Japanese and UAE Derby losing streaks would have been over by now had those horses been ridden by U.S. jockeys?  

Or going the other way, how many international races has Pletcher won?  I don't think he's even won the Dubai World Cup, a race written specifically to attract the best U.S. dirt horses over.

The international horses should use American jockeys in the American Classics.  The jockeys that have ridden in the US classic on international horses are all great jockeys, without a doubt, but it's a matter of context.

However, we all know, and especially the Derby, is not a race that translates well for international riders.  I would expect The Belmont to be the first one to fall if a good international horse and rider combination try it.

Pletcher, not the jockeys, are the reason he is 2 for 64.  Let's not conflate Pletcher's abject cluelessness about getting a horse ready to run his best in the KD with the riders.

Even the older Mike Smith would have moved Derma Sotogake up and there is no question Chris Lemaire is the better rider of the two currently.

The Belmont fell in 1990 when Dermot Weld and Mick Kinane teamed up with Go and Go.

SameSteve G said:

Pletcher, not the jockeys, are the reason he is 2 for 64.  Let's not conflate Pletcher's abject cluelessness about getting a horse ready to run his best in the KD with the riders.

Given that he learned from D. Wayne Lukas who practically owned the Triple Crown in the 80's and 90's (despite never sweeping them with 1 horse), that's quite amazing he hasn't even come close to matching his old boss' records given how much expensive horseflesh he's had at his disposal.   

That role fell to Baffert who may not have directly worked with DWL, but was in California during DWL's prime and learned by observation. 

Thank you.  See?  I knew it would be the first one.  LOL.  I take full responsibility for the error.

I agree.  However, Pletcher simply does not possess a feel for getting a horse prepared for down the road.  I think that's the main reason with his good horses he does very well in the preps but cannot negotiate that final step to the Derby.

His horses are often short on the big day.