This is a place for friendly and civil discussion of horse racing of all types including handicapping.
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You're not alone in that feeling, without a doubt. The subjective side of our personalities respond differently. So, there is no "correct" way of feeling about the horse or what he has accomplished & how he came to accomplish what he has done.
What is indisputable, as a fact, is that no other horse in the long history of U.S. racing has done what Justify has done. That puts him alone. One either appreciates it while another one may not.
My own subjective view is that something was at work, in terms of yearning for a horse to end the 37 year drought, that amplified Pharoah's accomplishment. By the same token, Justify's TC came so recently after AP's that much, if not all, of the yearning for a TC had already been spent, thereby diminishing it for many on a subjective level.
In terms of particulars, outside of Secretariat's Tour De Force, bravura TC series which stands as the highest bar, we can, if we want to, find holes in every winner's profile. Either a small field, here or there, an easy race, etc.
Even the truly great front-runner, who like Justify, was an undefeated TC Champ & had nothing but 1's in his running lines as well, Seattle Slew, took a bashing from certain quarters during & after his TC.
Aside from the handicapping & betting where a high degree of objectivity is required for the job, the fun of fandom, because it's less rigorous, is the fun to indulge our feelings. :)
Your last sentence mentions fandom and I think that’s what’s bothering me. The bettor in me lost $40 on the race, big whoop. I’m finding myself unable to cheer on a TRIPLE CROWN champion though and I guess that’s whats bothering me as a fan of the sport. I can’t quite put my finger on why, but it just doesn’t feel right, from them keeping Audible out as Rae’s mentions to running Restoring Hope.
Yes. Whatever works inside each of us psychologically, as fans, to either experience exhilaration or disappointment or to be completely unmoved & feel neutral is different for each of us. Even though the experience of some kind of emotional reaction to something we are passionate about itself is universal. We all feel something & we each feel differently.
I made it no secret that Pharoah didn't move me & no amount of cajolery from the majority of people who felt differently made a difference to me.
It's all part of being a fan. Personally, I was sorry to see (even though I expected it) Hope doing what Geroux asked him to do because as a fan of Justify I thought he would win without that nonsense occurring. So, if I have any disappointment it's not in the result but in the methodology that was all too apparent. I was sorry to see it. It's a blemish I cannot deny.
Onward & upward, Bet. :)
I think it may feel that way because Justify did everything in a very short time span, so we didn't have an entire prep season to follow his trials and travails. The point is that, for a horse w/not a whole lot of foundation, he just won these things on sheer talent. He sure is a beautiful animal on top of everything.
I make no bones that I am not a Baffert fan. I am not a fan of most of the humans he is involved with in his "business" and since he gets sent the very best breedings, I am unable to say he is better than many other trainers, who don't get sent those kinds of horses in the first place. Unlike Aiden O'brien, he doesn't seem magnanimus in giving all his employees credit for each time he wins, and he seems more like a tv personality than a trainer these days....most of the work is done by people like this:
Had this been aiden O'brien winning, you can be darn sure he would have put his employees in the spotlight and given them as many accolades as he had time/space for.
Baffert seems more like a tv personality lately than a trainer. Maybe he should run for POTUS since that seems to be the trend these days LOL
You make a great point about the short time span. Humans usually develop deep feelings of affection over time. Most of the horses we love, were in our consciousness their juvy year. Justify burst on the scene, and subconsciously, some may feel that he didn't "pay his dues". For me, that's precisely what makes him special. I was not super impressed with any one of his races. It is his meteoric rise to the top in such a short time, handling all the various challenges, that I find most impressive.
Thanks for the read.
The first time I saw video of Justify, my thought was, he had the motion that most resembled a rocking horse, that I had ever seen. Was like I was watching I toy horse from a swiss watchmaker from long ago. He could of went around again...and again.
Poetry in motion.
Being by Scat Daddy, gotta be monster on turf. Send him to the Arc, have Soumillon ride.
this is a pretty good back and forth.
i have seen a couple of interviews recently talking about more
deep pockets and others to get a piece of the ownership of tbreds
and the strategy will be like this race with more investors with a piece of
multiple horses in the same g1 races and it will have talking points from the group team
on the strategy for the race scenario for the best results for their group and the plan for each horse
and part of that will be who to leave out of a race that can comprimise for the biggest return
on their money invested. all legal and randomly done before and more often part of a cappers
nightmare to go with the special feed.
anyone else see those interviews ?
I agree, I wasn't a fan of this horse or American Pharoah. The only time either horse was challenged in their careers, one barely held off a 67-1 Derby 6th place finisher and the other went down to Keen Ice. Sour grapes, for sure.
After rooting for Triple Crowns from my Derby picks (War Emblem, California Chrome), only to see them go down, I tried to remove the fandom from the race and focus on the betting.
Just because Justify won the TC doesn't mean I'll be waiting to put an Apollo or Storm Cat on top in future Derbies.
I have not seen those but I learned a lesson that I wish I was still ignorant about and I feel stupid for not taking the reason Hope was in the race seriously enough when the draw came out. I agree with Steve that Justify didn’t need the help and it’s a bad look on the ownership. Just one more black eye I’ll have to swallow if I’m to continue to be a fan of the sport I guess because I agree we’re going to be seeing this more and more. Maybe this stuff has been going on for decades and I was simply naive and under the impression that the sport had more integrity than it ever actually had? It saddens me because I actually like Justify but he’ll forever have a little asterisk next to his name in the back of my mind, especially when I think of some that never got their TC like Smarty because of the way they were ganged up on.