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More fatalities! What Now?   General Discussions

Started 5/21/19 by RAESFAN; 5244 views.
In reply toRe: msg 13

From: Wintertrian


Yeah, I remember Mickey Rourke's outstanding performance in The Wrestler. 

Life after steroids and performance enhancing drugs is not pleasant, whether you be beast or human. 

Lately, the way things have been going in U.S. racing (for 20+ years actually but the full effect had not dawned on me to the extent it has now) I was thinking about reincarnation, and started to squirm at the thought of coming back as a thoroughbred racehorse under this system, with all but a very small handful of trainers.  

That was a rather sad and disturbing thought, once I examined it.   


From: TexSquared


I'm sure you read this:

The punchline is right at the end... uh, maybe you shouldn't have taken them out in the first place?

Ms. Stronach also said that she would consider switching back to a synthetic track. In 2009, the last time horses at Santa Anita competed for a full year on a synthetic track, the fatality rate was .9 per 1,000 starts, compared with 2.27 per 1,000 starts in 2017.

“The numbers don’t lie,” Ms. Stronach said.


From: zowcownow


2008 - Betting The breeders cup at Santa Anita with its pro-ride synthetic track was hard.  2009 was even harder.  Yuck.....

  • Edited June 29, 2019 1:28 am  by  zowcownow

From: Wintertrian


No Tex, I didn't read the NYT article.  It always tells me that my limit for reading w/out a subscription has happened. :)  

As for the track I don't know if "the track" is the only problem or if it's a combination of things. 

Oaklawn has 3x as much rain in any given year, in 2018 we had 71.41 inches in 2018.  That's a whole lot.    I imagine that when they put in the dirt track they had proper engineering .... sort of like when you have  septic tank installed, you get perk tests and then make sure water is going to filter properly thru all the carefully designed "layers" designed specifically for that piece of land.   I suspect something wasn't done right at SA with the underlyament or SOMETHING.   I'm not an engineer. 


Watching the Hollendorfer thing unfold, whatever info that SA passed on to NYRA that made them reverse their decision on letting JH have barns/stall in NY must have been very damaging.   We won't know until necropsies and those will be tied up in investigations or court. So figure, htat means *never*.     6 deaths and all the broken bones.....Galilean no works since AR Derby, gunmetal grey and instagrand bone injuries, ..and many suspect that when necropsies are released it might be bad news.

(like biophosphonates)   Or it may also be that SA is forcing trainers to run horses to fill races when the horses should be staying in the barn.

Dr. Arthur and Dr.Bramlage have already written extensively on these drugs, and their side effects in horses, so I won't repeat it here.  Basically on xrays it looks like bone has filled in but the exact opposite has happened......osteoclasts are inhibited and so the bone is not filling in at all, it's becoming more like a dead tree trunk since cells can no longer replace themselves.

At any rate, there is no transparency at all.....nobody knows, because we are not being told the reasons for anything.  

One thing I know for sure:   I'm just not desperate enough for entertainment that I want to see horses harmed in the process.  Certainly not in numbers that don't make sense. 



In reply toRe: msg 16



Will Call had a heart attack after the race at CD.  It was a very hot day for CD.    Another horse I jinxed, put him in the tri..   I was skeptical wondering how the heat would affect the horses.  Can't be good being on Lasix and running in the high heat.


From: TexSquared


Drugs and dirt tracks.  Get rid of both and kill fewer horses. So simple but it'll never happen:

Trainer Michael Dickinson, whose synthetic Tapeta tracks are in place at Golden Gate Fields, Presque Isle Downs and Canada's Woodbine, compares dirt tracks to improvised explosive devices.

“It blows up in your face without any warning,” he said. “Dirt racing can’t conduct without a load of fatalities and a shed load of drugs. Those are two things that the public won’t put up with.”


From: Gerh


“A simplistic solution to a complex problem” said Beyer.Kind Of like using his figures for handicapping.

It is ironic that Belmont,while being one of the safest dirt tracks never gets into the Breeders Cup discussion.

In reply toRe: msg 20

From: TexSquared


The solution is not "do nothing and hope it goes away". Tried that, and look where we are...

In reply toRe: msg 20

From: Wintertrian


Good point about Belmont never getting into BC conversations.   Maybe explain why you think that is. 

On the Andy thing, keeping in mind that people like andy beyer, talking heads, race track personalities and racing personages pretty much have a reason to support the 'status quo' because otherwise they can't be significant anymore.   (Andy:  the way, the truth, the light.....once somebody says this about their own work, you can't really take them seriously anymore.... I mean, it's the stuff that cults are made of).    His meltdown about the derby on the day of the Preakness made me wonder if he still had all his marbles. 

Some of these people are *highly reactive* types,  the opposite brain type that produces *proactive* people. 

Moral to story:  don't expect proactive behavior from reactive type people, esp. not if they are holding on for dear life.  Gotta look elsewhere for positive changes to our sport.   But......its taking too long.  Way too long.  In the meantime, people who were once passionate horse racing fans are walking away from U.S. racing.  

In reply toRe: msg 22

From: DogsUp


Breeders Cup & Santa Anita At Large

Sunset in Elmont N Y Belmont Park in November about +/- 4:35 PM. Not many years ago if Belmont had been the host track, weather would have caused big problems shipping in, quarantine time, and day of racing..if it could have been conducted at all. West Coast provides three additional hour window. Going West to East Coast USA alone. 

No lighting system, however consider for two years now for Belmont only of NYRA circuit.. Doubtful any studies by NYRA show that people working days, would head out to Elmont N.Y.and the for night cards.

The Meadowlands NJ  is night for standardbreds  and Tbreds. The advent of competing gambling choices and means, and  according lack of potential new fans caused decline. Lights or not.  As is elsewhere.

Churchill has lights and AWD ~ Advanced Wager Depositing (Twinspires). Better weather statistically than Downstate New York early November.

Santa Anita is up for grabs in court dispute ownership. So both parties daughter and Frank S are willing to let the band play on. Run a BC. Equals revenue.  Plain and simple.

What the gamble is is that horses running  the 2 day dirt events, even first time, go down in training or a race. And under lack of caution to have moved venue due to lack of significant resolve.

Diminishing size of foaled crops and available runners/ running in more races and cheaper, and number of meet racing dates (widow of opportunity) and casino enhancement of purse monies are also factors for the games failure. 

  • Edited July 3, 2019 11:38 am  by  DogsUp