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From: Bob (Bobbylee7) DelphiPlus Member Icon Posted by hostJul-17 9:11 AM 
To: All  (1 of 129) 
 37612.1 

We hear this very nice "rule" by Christians everywhere. "Love the sinner hate the sin" Is it biblical? Is it something that is in fact a rule for all Christians? What do you think? 


 

 
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From: Secundus555Jul-17 7:34 PM 
To: Bob (Bobbylee7) DelphiPlus Member Icon  (2 of 129) 
 37612.2 in reply to 37612.1 

Do you think God HATES sinners? 

Do you think he ONLY loves the righteous?

Secundus

 

 
From: Bob (Bobbylee7) DelphiPlus Member Icon Posted by hostJul-18 9:10 AM 
To: Secundus555  (3 of 129) 
 37612.3 in reply to 37612.2 

Do you think God HATES sinners? 

Do you think he ONLY loves the righteous?

bob>God loves those who love Him AND follow His commands/will, right? Are you agreeing with "Love the sinner hate the sin?" 


 

 

 
From: Secundus555Jul-18 9:57 AM 
To: Bob (Bobbylee7) DelphiPlus Member Icon  (4 of 129) 
 37612.4 in reply to 37612.3 

Bob (Bobbylee7) said...

bob>God loves those who love Him AND follow His commands/will, right?

Are you saying God ONLY loves those who love him back and follow his commands?

And that he DOESN'T love those who do NOT love him and who do NOT follow his commands?

Secundus

 

 
From: Bob (Bobbylee7) DelphiPlus Member Icon Posted by hostJul-18 10:09 AM 
To: Secundus555  (5 of 129) 
 37612.5 in reply to 37612.4 

Bob (Bobbylee7) said...

bob>God loves those who love Him AND follow His commands/will, right?

Are you saying God ONLY loves those who love him back and follow his commands?

And that he DOESN'T love those who do NOT love him and who do NOT follow his commands?

Jesus> 

? 1 John 5:3 ?
 
In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,
 
John 14:23
 
King James Bible
Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.


 

 

 
From: Secundus555Jul-18 10:21 AM 
To: Bob (Bobbylee7) DelphiPlus Member Icon  (6 of 129) 
 37612.6 in reply to 37612.5 

Here you are talking about OUR love for God, not GOD'S love for US. So it does not address the issue at hand. Of COURSE we show OUR love for God by our obedience. 

But do you believe that God ONLY loves those who love him back and who obey him?

Do you believe that he DOES NOT love those who do NOT love him back and who do NOT obey him?

Secundus

 

 
From: Jammer (ABQJammer)Jul-18 11:04 AM 
To: Bob (Bobbylee7) DelphiPlus Member Icon  (7 of 129) 
 37612.7 in reply to 37612.1 

Bob (Bobbylee7) said...

We hear this very nice "rule" by Christians everywhere. "Love the sinner hate the sin" Is it biblical? Is it something that is in fact a rule for all Christians? What do you think? 

Well, what does the Scriptures say?  Psalm 97:10 says, "Ye that love the LORD, hate evil: he preserveth the souls of his saints; he delivereth them out of the hand of the wicked."  Proverbs 8:13 says, "The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate."

Jesus, in John 7:7 said, "The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.", so when the world SEEMS to hate US, it's really Jesus INSIDE us that it hates.

Luke 6:22 says, "Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.", so when we are hated for being Jesus' representatives, we need to remember the verse above, that they are really hating Christ IN us, and to be thankful for being recognized as such.

Luke 6:35 says, "But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.", so even our "enemies" are to be "loved", so that SHOULD include ALL "sinners".

Romans 12:9 says, "Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.", so, again, we are to "hate evil", BUT we are to "cling" to that which is "good", even inside the person who may be a "sinner", because they are equally "loved" by God, even as we are.

Romans 12:21 says, "Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.", so we can't let the world's "evil" overwhelm or "overcome" us, but we DEFEAT it with the "good" that we do to and for them, as if God is doing to and for them THROUGH us.

1 Thessalonians 5:15 says, "See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men.", so we are NOT to return "evil" for "evil" done to us, but INSTEAD do "good" to them, and to EVERYONE, which includes "sinners".

1 Peter 3:11 says, "Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it.", so we are not only supposed to "avoid" or "turn away" from "evil", but to "do good", AND to "seek peace" with EVERYONE.

3 John 1:11 says, "Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He
...[Message truncated]

 

 
From: Bob (Bobbylee7) DelphiPlus Member Icon Posted by hostJul-18 12:22 PM 
To: Secundus555  (8 of 129) 
 37612.8 in reply to 37612.6 

John 14:23-24

23        Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

24        He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

Dan 9:4

4          And I prayed unto the LORD my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments;

Neh 1:5

5          And said, I beseech thee, O LORD God of heaven, the great and terrible God, that keepeth covenant and mercy for them that love him and observe his commandments:

(KJV)

Ps 145:20

20        The LORD preserveth all them that love him: but all the wicked will he destroy.

(KJV)

John 14:21-22"Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him." NIV

John15:10"If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love." NIV

IJohn 2:3-4"We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, "I know him, but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him."

IJohn5:3"This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome." NIV

 

Deut 7:9-10

9Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;

 

Here you are talking about OUR love for God, not GOD'S love for US.

bob>Here are some more verses, God loves those who love Him AND keep His commands/will. One can't claim to love God and reject His commands/will. 

So it does not address the issue at hand. Of COURSE we show OUR love for God by our obedience. 

bob>"Love the sinner hate the sin" is ridiculous.  God does not send the sin to hell and the sinner to heaven. The sin is created by the sinner, it's part of him, they can't be separated, but they sins can be washed with the Blood. 

But do you believe that God ONLY loves those who love him back and who obey him?

bob>That's what Jesus says, so I believe it. 

 


 

 

 
From: Bob (Bobbylee7) DelphiPlus Member Icon Posted by hostJul-18 12:32 PM 
To: Jammer (ABQJammer)  (9 of 129) 
 37612.9 in reply to 37612.7 

To sum up, YES, this "rule" IS Biblical, and SHOULD be followed by all Christians.

bob>It's not a rule, it's a cliche and all cliche's are wrong. Let's take "love the sinner" when the sinner comes into your house to kill your wife/kids, you love the sinner? You hate the sin alright, but the sin is not the product of itself, it's the evil done by the sinner, if you hate the sin/murder, then you have to hate the sinner/murderer, without him there is no sin. Also, how does one separate the sin from the sinner? It is even  possible to do that? God doesn't do that, God washes away the sin leaving the sinner clean. 

 We ARE supposed to "hate evil" or "hate sin", but YET we are ALSO supposed to "love" ALL "sinners"

bob>You love the sinner that killed your wife/kids? 

including ourselves, since NONE of us are "perfect".  When we only point out the "sin" in others, and ignore our own, we USURP God's place of judgment, which is NOT something we should be doing, and God will use OUR "measure" of judgment against US.

bob>We are to rebuke sinners especially if they are Christians, right? 

John 14:23-24

23        Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

24        He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

Dan 9:4

4          And I prayed unto the LORD my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments;

Neh 1:5

5          And said, I beseech thee, O LORD God of heaven, the great and terrible God, that keepeth covenant and mercy for them that love him and observe his commandments:

(KJV)

Ps 145:20

20        The LORD preserveth all them that love him: but all the wicked will he destroy.

(KJV)

John 14:21-22"Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him." NIV

John15:10"If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love." NIV

IJohn 2:3-4"We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, "I know him, but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him."

IJohn5:3"This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome." NIV

 

Deut 7:9-10

9Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;

 


 

 

 
From: Jammer (ABQJammer)Jul-18 2:29 PM 
To: Bob (Bobbylee7) DelphiPlus Member Icon  (10 of 129) 
 37612.10 in reply to 37612.9 

Bob (Bobbylee7) said...

Let's take "love the sinner" when the sinner comes into your house to kill your wife/kids, you love the sinner?

If we are to be Christ like, then YES.

Bob (Bobbylee7) said...

You hate the sin alright, but the sin is not the product of itself, it's the evil done by the sinner, if you hate the sin/murder, then you have to hate the sinner/murderer, without him there is no sin.

NO, you do NOT "have" to "hate the sinner".

Bob (Bobbylee7) said...

Also, how does one separate the sin from the sinner?

Simple.  You "hate" the "act" that someone does, but you still "love" the "sinner" who did that "act".  However, this can ONLY be done with the "love" that comes from God.  Unless we give ourselves COMPLETELY to God, then there is NO WAY we can do this, in our own strength or by our own power.  It is the Holy Spirit, living and working THROUGH us that really DOES this, IF we allow Him to do it.

Bob (Bobbylee7) said...

We are to rebuke sinners especially if they are Christians, right? 

We are supposed to try to "correct" Christians who are sinning, but we CANNOT "change" UNrepentant "sinners".  That can ONLY be done by the Holy Spirit, convicting them of their sin, God's righteousness, and their impending judgment.

 

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