Faith Issues,News & Religions -  How the Coming is Viewed by religions (692 views) Notify me whenever anyone posts in this discussion.Subscribe
 
From: Bob (Bobbylee7) DelphiPlus Member Icon Posted by host2/7/18 9:43 AM 
To: All  (1 of 24) 
 38027.1 

Christians aren't the only religion that believe in the "coming" or "second coming" of Christ/Yeshua/Messiah. 

Some seem to look to it to save them from this world, some are looking forward to being with Christ in heaven. 

 

Jews also believe in the coming of the Messiah, they take it to be for the first time and one who will protect and provide peace. 

I'm asking Len to define this better for us. 

 

Muslims also believe in a second coming of Mohamad and I need someone to define their teachings on what will be done at that time please. 


 

 
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From: Bob (Bobbylee7) DelphiPlus Member Icon Posted by host2/7/18 9:44 AM 
To: AryehLeib613  (2 of 24) 
 38027.2 in reply to 38027.1 

Christians aren't the only religion that believe in the "coming" or "second coming" of Christ/Yeshua/Messiah. 

Some seem to look to it to save them from this world, some are looking forward to being with Christ in heaven. 

 

Jews also believe in the coming of the Messiah, they take it to be for the first time and one who will protect and provide peace. 

I'm asking Len to define this better for us. 

 

Muslims also believe in a second coming of Mohamad and I need someone to define their teachings on what will be done at that time please. 


 

 

 
From: AryehLeib6132/7/18 2:35 PM 
To: Bob (Bobbylee7) DelphiPlus Member Icon  (3 of 24) 
 38027.3 in reply to 38027.2 

The Messiah is not mentioned directly as  such in the Tanakh; it is by allusion.

The Hebrew word, “moshiakh,” appears 39 times in the Tanakh.  In Jewish bibles it is always translated as “anointed;” never as “Messiah.”  The word for “THE Messiah” (definite article) is “HaMoshiakh.”  This word appears in the Tanakh just three times in Lev. 4 as an adjective in context of "ha-Cohen ha'moshiakh," "the anointed priest." It appears nowhere else.

As you may know, kings were anointed (physically with oil), and priests were anointed.  For example, David was anointed first by the prophet, Samuel (1 Sam. 16:13), when God selected him to replace Saul, and then again by the elders of Israel when he became king (2 Sam. 5:3).   Baptism/mikva is not anointment.

Mainstream Jews are not excessively preoccupied by messianic speculation, Lubavitch notwithstanding.  Over the last 2000 years, whenever we were so preoccupied, we were burdened with false or failed messiahs and tragic consequences.  Our prescient sages taught us, “May the spirit of those who try to calculate the time of the end rot (Talmud, Sanhedrin 97b).”

We are also not hung up on eschatological speculation because we are more interested in this world than the next.  “Better one hour of Torah and mitzvoth in this world than the whole life in the world to come,” says the Talmud.  While we hope to be rewarded someday, Rabbi Soloveitchik has pointed out that receiving a reward, while pleasant, is not a religious act.  “Therefore, halakhic man prefers the real world to a transcendent existence because here, in this world, man is given an opportunity to create, act, accomplish, while there, in the world to come, he is powerless to change anything at all. --- The task of the [Jewish] religious individual is bound up with the performance of mitzvot, commandments, and this performance is confined to this world ---.”  The goal is not to withdraw from the world but to perfect it.

 

 

 

 

 
From: AryehLeib6132/7/18 2:42 PM 
To: Bob (Bobbylee7) DelphiPlus Member Icon  (4 of 24) 
 38027.4 in reply to 38027.2 

“Christ” is not Jesus’ last name (surname); it is a title. “Christ” comes from the Greek word Christos, meaning “anointed one.” This is the Greek equivalent of the Hebrew word "Moshiakh.” 

So Jesus Christ means "Jesus the anointed" although he was not anointed the usual way; with oil.

 

 
From: Bob (Bobbylee7) DelphiPlus Member Icon Posted by host2/7/18 3:06 PM 
To: AryehLeib613  (5 of 24) 
 38027.5 in reply to 38027.3 

The Messiah is not mentioned directly as  such in the Tanakh; it is by allusion.

The Hebrew word, “moshiakh,” appears 39 times in the Tanakh.  In Jewish bibles it is always translated as “anointed;” never as “Messiah.”  The word for “THE Messiah” (definite article) is “HaMoshiakh.”  This word appears in the Tanakh just three times in Lev. 4 as an adjective in context of "ha-Cohen ha'moshiakh," "the anointed priest." It appears nowhere else.

bob>The "HaMoshiakh" will be a priest? That would mean he would be from the Levite tribe, but I think it's said He could come from any line. It would be correct to assume He's a full blood Jew? 

As you may know, kings were anointed (physically with oil), and priests were anointed.  For example, David was anointed first by the prophet, Samuel (1 Sam. 16:13), when God selected him to replace Saul, and then again by the elders of Israel when he became king (2 Sam. 5:3).   Baptism/mikva is not anointment.

Mainstream Jews are not excessively preoccupied by messianic speculation, Lubavitch notwithstanding.

bob>Lubavitch?

  Over the last 2000 years, whenever we were so preoccupied, we were burdened with false or failed messiahs and tragic consequences.  Our prescient sages taught us, “May the spirit of those who try to calculate the time of the end rot (Talmud, Sanhedrin 97b).”

bob>Hey, I feel like that too! LOL

We are also not hung up on eschatological speculation because we are more interested in this world than the next.  “Better one hour of Torah and mitzvoth in this world than the whole life in the world to come,” says the Talmud. 

bob>I don't understand why that is so. 

While we hope to be rewarded someday, Rabbi Soloveitchik has pointed out that receiving a reward, while pleasant, is not a religious act.  “Therefore, halakhic man prefers the real world to a transcendent existence because here, in this world, man is given an opportunity to create, act, accomplish, while there, in the world to come, he is powerless to change anything at all. --- The task of the [Jewish] religious individual is bound up with the performance of mitzvot, commandments, and this performance is confined to this world ---.”  The goal is not to withdraw from the world but to perfect it.

bob>Wonderful goal. In the next "world" are Jews ranked by how well they prefomed the commandments? What is the next world to be like? 

 


 

 

 
From: Bob (Bobbylee7) DelphiPlus Member Icon Posted by host2/7/18 3:08 PM 
To: AryehLeib613  (6 of 24) 
 38027.6 in reply to 38027.4 

“Christ” is not Jesus’ last name (surname); it is a title. “Christ” comes from the Greek word Christos, meaning “anointed one.” This is the Greek equivalent of the Hebrew word "Moshiakh.” 

So Jesus Christ means "Jesus the anointed" although he was not anointed the usual way; with oil.

bob>He is known by many names, Christ and Jesus being two major names, but most don't know what you were just saying. Christ is a title, Jesus was not His true name, as we have discussed Yeshua is His Hebrew name and what He was called in the NT. 


 

 

 
From: AryehLeib6132/7/18 3:34 PM 
To: Bob (Bobbylee7) DelphiPlus Member Icon  (7 of 24) 
 38027.7 in reply to 38027.5 

bob>The "HaMoshiakh" will be a priest? That would mean he would be from the Levite tribe,

Yes, yes!

>>but I think it's said He could come from any line.

No he cannot.

>>It would be correct to assume He's a full blood Jew? 

Certainly.

bob>Lubavitch?

That is  the name of the Hassidic group that spawned the famous Rebbe Shneerson.

Len>>We are also not hung up on eschatological speculation because we are more interested in this world than the next.  “Better one hour of Torah and mitzvoth in this world than the whole life in the world to come,” says the Talmud. 

bob>I don't understand why that is so.

See below: 

Len>>While we hope to be rewarded someday, Rabbi Soloveitchik has pointed out that receiving a reward, while pleasant, is not a religious act.  “Therefore, halakhic man prefers the real world to a transcendent existence because here, in this world, man is given an opportunity to create, act, accomplish, while there, in the world to come, he is powerless to change anything at all. --- The task of the [Jewish] religious individual is bound up with the performance of mitzvot, commandments, and this performance is confined to this world ---.”  The goal is not to withdraw from the world but to perfect it.

bob>Wonderful goal. In the next "world" are Jews ranked by how well they perfomed the commandments? What is the next world to be like? 

I don't know because I was not there.

 

 
From: Bob (Bobbylee7) DelphiPlus Member Icon Posted by host2/7/18 4:08 PM 
To: AryehLeib613  (8 of 24) 
 38027.8 in reply to 38027.7 

bob>The "HaMoshiakh" will be a priest? That would mean he would be from the Levite tribe,

Yes, yes!

bob>>>I didn't know that, what things is He expected to do? 

>>but I think it's said He could come from any line.

No he cannot.

>>It would be correct to assume He's a full blood Jew? 

Certainly.

bob>The Levite line does have known DNA. 

bob>Lubavitch?

That is  the name of the Hassidic group that spawned the famous Rebbe Shneerson.

bob>>>What time in history was that?

Len>>We are also not hung up on eschatological speculation because we are more interested in this world than the next.  “Better one hour of Torah and mitzvoth in this world than the whole life in the world to come,” says the Talmud. 

bob>I don't understand why that is so.

See below: 

Len>>While we hope to be rewarded someday, Rabbi Soloveitchik has pointed out that receiving a reward, while pleasant, is not a religious act.  “Therefore, halakhic man prefers the real world to a transcendent existence because here, in this world, man is given an opportunity to create, act, accomplish, while there, in the world to come, he is powerless to change anything at all. --- The task of the [Jewish] religious individual is bound up with the performance of mitzvot, commandments, and this performance is confined to this world ---.”  The goal is not to withdraw from the world but to perfect it.

bob>>>Still seems like one hour vs eternity isn't anywhere close to equal, could this be a metaphor for show the importance of following the laws? 

bob>Wonderful goal. In the next "world" are Jews ranked by how well they performed the commandments? What is the next world to be like? 

I don't know because I was not there.

bob>>>LOL. I would say "you is not there" in this case. However, you "is" where you "is", as Bill Clinton might say...or not. You was where you is may be the way I would put it, but I never did learnt my grammar good. 


 

 

 
From: AryehLeib6132/7/18 11:40 PM 
To: Bob (Bobbylee7) DelphiPlus Member Icon  (9 of 24) 
 38027.9 in reply to 38027.8 

We had a communications  problem. Let's start over.

bob>The "HaMoshiakh" will be a priest? That would mean he would be from the Levite tribe,

Yes, yes for the HaMoshiakh mentioned in the Tanakh/Leviticus. I did not realize you meant the Messiah. As I said before, the Messiah is also called HaMoshiakh  but the Messiah is not explicitly mentioned in Tanakh; juist by allusion. 

>>but I think it's said He could come from any line.

The priestly one cannot; he must be a Levite. The Messiah must come from Judah; David's tribe. He will NOT be as priest. Recall  that I said all kings, as well as priests, were anointed. Kings were  from Judah. Cyrus was anointed and he was a gentile.

bob>>>I didn't know that, what things is He expected to do? 

"He" meaning who?

 

 
From: Bob (Bobbylee7) DelphiPlus Member Icon Posted by host2/8/18 9:57 AM 
To: AryehLeib613  (10 of 24) 
 38027.10 in reply to 38027.9 

We had a communications  problem. Let's start over.

bob>The "HaMoshiakh" will be a priest? That would mean he would be from the Levite tribe,

Yes, yes for the HaMoshiakh mentioned in the Tanakh/Leviticus. I did not realize you meant the Messiah. As I said before, the Messiah is also called HaMoshiakh  but the Messiah is not explicitly mentioned in Tanakh; juist by allusion. 

bob>>I am confused, as usual. The Messiah is also known by the Hebrew name "HaMoshiakh" they are the same, right? He will be a priest so he will be in the Levite line, he will be the High Priest, but there isn't a temple, yet, or does that come when he does? 

>>but I think it's said He could come from any line.

The priestly one cannot; he must be a Levite. The Messiah must come from Judah; David's tribe. He will NOT be as priest. Recall  that I said all kings, as well as priests, were anointed. Kings were  from Judah. Cyrus was anointed and he was a gentile.

bob>Okay, I'm really confused now. The Messiah and the HaMoshiakh are not one, they are two. One, the Messiah will be King, the HaMoshiakh will be the high priest 

"He" meaning who?

bob>On first base? I don't know is on third? I'm going to bunt him in and move who to second. 


 

  • Edited February 8, 2018 9:59 am  by  Bob (Bobbylee7)
 

 
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