Faith Issues,News & Religions -  The Willow Creek Style Is Good or Bad?  (515 views) Notify me whenever anyone posts in this discussion.Subscribe
 
From: Bob (Bobbylee7) DelphiPlus Member Icon Posted by hostOct-2 10:31 AM 
To: All Poll  (1 of 54) 
 38644.1 
The Willow Creek Style Is Good or Bad?
It's GOOD
It's BAD
It's GOOD and BAD
What is Willow Creek?
I don't know
I don't care
 

8 people have voted so far

 
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From: Bob (Bobbylee7) DelphiPlus Member Icon Posted by hostOct-2 10:32 AM 
To: Secundus555 Poll  (2 of 54) 
 38644.2 in reply to 38644.1 

 The problem in my area, which is a really Christian area as we are in Oklahoma, is the TV churches have really grown and keep growing and the older churches are loosing members right and left, many have closed their doors. The willow creek style has taken over Christianity in many areas, what do you think of that? 


 

 

 
From: ButchkingOct-2 4:28 PM 
To: Bob (Bobbylee7) DelphiPlus Member Icon Poll  (3 of 54) 
 38644.3 in reply to 38644.2 

Some years ago, the pastor of Willow Creek church along with one other man, sat at the feet(so to speak) of Robert Schuller and learned all the in's and out's of the Seeker Sensitive movement, which is designed to promote church growth, and it's straight from the pits of hell.

A few years after incorporating the demonic movement into his church, President Clinton came to speak there, and when the President arrived and was announced as he walked out onto the platform, he was given a standing ovation by some five thousand or so in attendance. I would have gotten up and walked out, because just weeks prior to this disgraceful "Christian" event, a bill was sent to Clinton's office which upon Clinton's signature approving it, it would have banned all partial birth abortions. Clinton vetoed the bill and killed it right on up to today's date. That gives everybody a look at the fruit of the garbage called the Seeker Sensitive movement.

About a year or two ago, Pastor Bill Hybels from Willow Creek church, finally broke down and admitted that the seeker sensitive theory did not work correctly, although, he was at a loss to explain what might work. To bad he didn't as me or any other true born again Christian.

And finally, several months ago, Pastor Hybels who is married, became involved with another woman, got caught and has since resigned from the church.

  • Edited October 2, 2018 4:29 pm  by  Butchking
 

 
From: Bob (Bobbylee7) DelphiPlus Member Icon Posted by hostOct-2 4:41 PM 
To: Butchking Poll  (4 of 54) 
 38644.4 in reply to 38644.3 

Some years ago, the pastor of Willow Creek church along with one other man, sat at the feet(so to speak) of Robert Schuller and learned all the in's and out's of the Seeker Sensitive movement, which is designed to promote church growth, and it's straight from the pits of hell.

bob>I didn't know it was called the "Seeker Sensitive Movement" I knew it was positive thinking on steroids and it was very popular. However, Schuller did talk about Christ. 

A few years after incorporating the demonic movement into his church,

bob>Your speaking about the Willow Creek Church here, right? 

President Clinton came to speak there,

bob>I'm not surprised a demonic church would attract Bill. 

and when the President arrived and was announced as he walked out onto the platform, he was given a standing ovation by some five thousand or so in attendance. I would have gotten up and walked out, because just weeks prior to this disgraceful "Christian" event, a bill was sent to Clinton's office which upon Clinton's signature approving it, it would have banned all partial birth abortions. Clinton vetoed the bill and killed it right on up to today's date. That gives everybody a look at the fruit of the garbage called the Seeker Sensitive movement.

bob>If Bills a part of it, it's BS. 

About a year or two ago, Pastor Bill Hybels from Willow Creek church, finally broke down and admitted that the seeker sensitive theory did not work correctly, although, he was at a loss to explain what might work. To bad he didn't as me or any other true born again Christian.

bob>I dont' think I ever sat thru a complete sermon by Willow Creek, a baptist church I attended and was on the board was secretly sending the pastors to Willow Creek training seminars on how to turn our church into a Willow Creek church. I quit the board and left the church and told everyone what was up. The Sunday morning service started having light hearted plays, secular songs and positive thinking sermons. It reminded me of the Jerry Springer show, let's all get along, I'm okay, your okay.  

And finally, several months ago, Pastor Hybels who is married, became involved with another woman, got caught and has since resigned from the church.

bob>So, a new church is on the way. So, your thinking Olsten is in this group, right? 

 


 

 

 
From: ButchkingOct-2 7:36 PM 
To: Bob (Bobbylee7) DelphiPlus Member Icon Poll  (5 of 54) 
 38644.5 in reply to 38644.4 

"A few years after incorporating the demonic movement into his church,"

"bob>Your speaking about the Willow Creek Church here, right?"

Right. Sorry for not making that clearer.

"bob>I dont' think I ever sat thru a complete sermon by Willow Creek, a baptist church I attended and was on the board was secretly sending the pastors to Willow Creek training seminars on how to turn our church into a Willow Creek church. I quit the board and left the church and told everyone what was up. The Sunday morning service started having light hearted plays, secular songs and positive thinking sermons. It reminded me of the Jerry Springer show, let's all get along, I'm okay, your okay."

That's pretty much it, and what the whole movement is about, just getting along, and first and foremost, never mention anything about sin or anything else that might be construed as negative. Don't tell lost people they are sinners and in dire need of a Savior, because it's not necessary according to them. Sooner or later, these unregenerate sinners who are sitting in the pews, having their ears tickled week after week, will just somehow see how great Christianity is and will somehow convert, which of course is all hogwash and after more then a decade, even Hybels figured it out.

Yes, Joel Olsten follows the very same ungodly and despicable principles. Hopefully, one day a light bulb will go off and he will see the light and set the record straight for his congregation before it's to late.

 

 
From: Bob (Bobbylee7) DelphiPlus Member Icon Posted by hostOct-3 10:22 AM 
To: Butchking Poll  (6 of 54) 
 38644.6 in reply to 38644.5 

"A few years after incorporating the demonic movement into his church,"

"bob>Your speaking about the Willow Creek Church here, right?"

Right. Sorry for not making that clearer.

"bob>I dont' think I ever sat thru a complete sermon by Willow Creek, a baptist church I attended and was on the board was secretly sending the pastors to Willow Creek training seminars on how to turn our church into a Willow Creek church. I quit the board and left the church and told everyone what was up. The Sunday morning service started having light hearted plays, secular songs and positive thinking sermons. It reminded me of the Jerry Springer show, let's all get along, I'm okay, your okay."

That's pretty much it, and what the whole movement is about, just getting along, and first and foremost, never mention anything about sin or anything else that might be construed as negative. Don't tell lost people they are sinners and in dire need of a Savior, because it's not necessary according to them. Sooner or later, these unregenerate sinners who are sitting in the pews, having their ears tickled week after week, will just somehow see how great Christianity is and will somehow convert, which of course is all hogwash and after more then a decade, even Hybels figured it out.

bob>The mega church I attend now is moving toward the Willow Creek style, the new pastor does present a few verses, but the let's work out our differences seems to be a theme and the sermon is no longer toward reaching the lost for Christ. Baptisms are now at the end of every month and we don't get hardly anyone wanting to be baptized. 

Yes, Joel Olsten follows the very same ungodly and despicable principles. Hopefully, one day a light bulb will go off and he will see the light and set the record straight for his congregation before it's to late.

bob>He's very different from his dad, but he's really grown the church. I also have sat down to hear his entire message and just can't do it. His "calling" at the end it pretty good, he does mention Christ, he also big time "name it and claim it", what do you think of that? And he's actually preaching milk, which is better than others are preaching and he's saving people, so I don't want him to stop, but I do want him to preach better, What do you think? 


 

 

 
From: ButchkingOct-4 10:00 AM 
To: Bob (Bobbylee7) DelphiPlus Member Icon Poll  (7 of 54) 
 38644.7 in reply to 38644.6 

"bob>I dont' think I ever sat thru a complete sermon by Willow Creek, a baptist church I attended and was on the board was secretly sending the pastors to Willow Creek training seminars on how to turn our church into a Willow Creek church. I quit the board and left the church and told everyone what was up. The Sunday morning service started having light hearted plays, secular songs and positive thinking sermons. It reminded me of the Jerry Springer show, let's all get along, I'm okay, your okay."

It's good that you left. To stay, could lead to spiritual starvation and even potentially worse. Our physical bodies must be fed nourishing food and our spirits must also receive nourishing food. Junk food in either instance, leads to sickness and eventual unnecessary suffering and even a possible early death.

bob>He's very different from his dad, but he's really grown the church. I also have sat down to hear his entire message and just can't do it. His "calling" at the end it pretty good, he does mention Christ, he also big time "name it and claim it", what do you think of that? And he's actually preaching milk, which is better than others are preaching and he's saving people, so I don't want him to stop, but I do want him to preach better, What do you think? 

I always enjoyed his dads preaching, and like you, cannot watch Joel for any length of time, usually consisting of a minute or two. tops.

Name it claim it is from Satan and is potentially dangerous, especially to a newer believer.

I'll have to make it a point to listen to the end of one of his church sermons, since, that's the first time that I've heard he actually evangelizes during his service. However, there is much false efforts at so called "evangelism", from people who themselves are not even saved, and this is clearly evident in so called "Christian" rock concerts, hip hop concerts, and even in some churches, and even though the name of Jesus is mentioned, it's meaningless, because it's another Jesus they present, not the One that will save them, but their false Jesus is designed to have the people follow them, and not the King of kings and the Lord of lords. The alter calls that bring bring them to the alter, are brought about by crafty emotional maneuvering and not at all by the conviction of the Holy Spirit. 

Hence, we have millions upon millions of people who think they are saved, and on their way to heaven, but, are really not. 

 

 
From: Bob (Bobbylee7) DelphiPlus Member Icon Posted by hostOct-4 10:16 AM 
To: Butchking Poll  (8 of 54) 
 38644.8 in reply to 38644.7 

"bob>I dont' think I ever sat thru a complete sermon by Willow Creek, a baptist church I attended and was on the board was secretly sending the pastors to Willow Creek training seminars on how to turn our church into a Willow Creek church. I quit the board and left the church and told everyone what was up. The Sunday morning service started having light hearted plays, secular songs and positive thinking sermons. It reminded me of the Jerry Springer show, let's all get along, I'm okay, your okay."

It's good that you left. To stay, could lead to spiritual starvation and even potentially worse. Our physical bodies must be fed nourishing food and our spirits must also receive nourishing food. Junk food in either instance, leads to sickness and eventual unnecessary suffering and even a possible early death.

bob>>Just to sneak around and do this behind the backs of the church show the pastor will seek any level of deceit to get what he wants. I knew him and his fellow pastor buddies who all went to OBU together and a couple of them thought they were the next Bill Graham, they weren't and couldn't figure out why not. The church is still there 20 years later, but it's just sitting, nothing big happened. I remember while I attended, the pictures of angles, heaven and Jesus vanished along with the crosses on display. One of the big things Willow teaches is that the church should not look like a church, it should look like a shopping mall. Also, the name on the sign "Baptist Church" was changed to "Community Center", all this was done without the members having any say at all. When man runs the church, it gets messed up.  

bob>He's very different from his dad, but he's really grown the church. I also have sat down to hear his entire message and just can't do it. His "calling" at the end it pretty good, he does mention Christ, he also big time "name it and claim it", what do you think of that? And he's actually preaching milk, which is better than others are preaching and he's saving people, so I don't want him to stop, but I do want him to preach better, What do you think? 

I always enjoyed his dads preaching, and like you, cannot watch Joel for any length of time, usually consisting of a minute or two. tops.

Name it claim it is from Satan and is potentially dangerous, especially to a newer believer.

bob>>The proof is, it doesn't work! What else do you need to prove it's not correct? 

I'll have to make it a point to listen to the end of one of his church sermons, since, that's the first time that I've heard he actually evangelizes during his service.

bob>>I just recorded a couple to see if he had some sort of call or not, I couldn't watch the rest  and I'm not saying his call is great, it's just that he has one. 

However, there is much false efforts at so called "evangelism", from people who themselves are not even saved,

bob>> I hadn't even thought about that... Great point!  

and this is clearly evident in so called "Christian" rock concerts, hip hop concerts, and even in some churches, and even though the name of Jesus is mentioned, it's meaningless, because it's another Jesus they present, not the One that will save them, but their false Jesus is designed to have the people follow them, and not the King of kings and the Lord of lords. The alter calls that bring bring them to the alter, are brought about by crafty emotional maneuvering and not at all by the conviction of the Holy Spirit. 

bob>>However, the word of God does not go out void, right? Even if it's presented incorrectly. 

Hence, we have millions upon millions of people who think they are saved, and on their way to heaven, but, are really not.

bob>>We have always had that, just now more than ever I would say. How does God deal with them on that day? They were mislead, they were trying, they didn't know better. It's kind of like Eve, she was deceived into thinking what she was doing was actually a good thing, so it's not her sin that brought on death, it was the sin of Adam, as he was not deceived, he actually knew what he was doing. 


 

 

 
From: ButchkingOct-4 11:09 AM 
To: Bob (Bobbylee7) DelphiPlus Member Icon Poll  (9 of 54) 
 38644.9 in reply to 38644.8 

bob>>However, the word of God does not go out void, right? Even if it's presented incorrectly.

It is absolutely and unquestionably right, that the word of God does not go out void.

If however, the word of God is presented incorrectly, then it is no longer the word of God and will go out void. If however, you meant to say that if it's presented correctly, but with the wrong motive. then, I would agree with you. in that it good indeed bear some very good results. True conviction is of course, brought about by the Holy Spirit, and He works within the perimeters of God's holy word. That's why trying to bring someone to salvation by humanistic reasoning, begging and pleading or any other man made ideas, are always meaningless and will never, ever bear any true fruit, but, very well may result in bringing about much rotten fruit, generated by a false sense of salvation, and this is evident everywhere.

bob>>We have always had that, just now more than ever I would say. How does God deal with them on that day? They were mislead, they were trying, they didn't know better. It's kind of like Eve, she was deceived into thinking what she was doing was actually a good thing, so it's not her sin that brought on death, it was the sin of Adam, as he was not deceived, he actually knew what he was doing. 

Efforts and intentions, no matter how good they may be, are meaningless in the end result of ones eternal destination, since each and every individual will have their eternal destination judged on an acceptance of Jesus Christ or non acceptance of Him, however, I believe that God will take all of your points, along with many others, into consideration when it comes to their eternal judgement, where there will be differing degrees of punishment for those who died lost in their sins.

And as far as the point that some like to bring forth, what about those who never even heard of Jesus when they died. God knows each and every heart and if there is even a flicker of hope for an unregenerate heart somewhere, He will move heaven and earth to get someone there or by other means to give them a chance to hear the good news, and He does this as easy as you and I can move a chess  pawn one square ahead.

 

 
From: Bob (Bobbylee7) DelphiPlus Member Icon Posted by hostOct-5 10:00 AM 
To: Butchking Poll  (10 of 54) 
 38644.10 in reply to 38644.9 

bob>>However, the word of God does not go out void, right? Even if it's presented incorrectly.

It is absolutely and unquestionably right, that the word of God does not go out void.

If however, the word of God is presented incorrectly, then it is no longer the word of God and will go out void.

bob>That's a good point, the issue would be is it close enough or not. 

If however, you meant to say that if it's presented correctly, but with the wrong motive. then, I would agree with you.

bob>No question being presented correctly, even if the one presenting it after money and doesn't believe at all, so in this case the motive is wrong, but when the motive is right and the message is off, then I guess it's void, which is what your saying. 

in that it good indeed bear some very good results. True conviction is of course, brought about by the Holy Spirit, and He works within the perimeters of God's holy word. That's why trying to bring someone to salvation by humanistic reasoning, begging and pleading or any other man made ideas, are always meaningless and will never, ever bear any true fruit, but, very well may result in bringing about much rotten fruit, generated by a false sense of salvation, and this is evident everywhere.

bob>Good point. We know of too "Christian leaders" who are just speaking BS, he's persuasive to the weak, he leads them to darkness. 

bob>>We have always had that, just now more than ever I would say. How does God deal with them on that day? They were mislead, they were trying, they didn't know better. It's kind of like Eve, she was deceived into thinking what she was doing was actually a good thing, so it's not her sin that brought on death, it was the sin of Adam, as he was not deceived, he actually knew what he was doing. 

Efforts and intentions, no matter how good they may be, are meaningless in the end result of ones eternal destination, since each and every individual will have their eternal destination judged on an acceptance of Jesus Christ or non acceptance of Him, however, I believe that God will take all of your points, along with many others, into consideration when it comes to their eternal judgement, where there will be differing degrees of punishment for those who died lost in their sins.

bob>I do think God will consider everything, to me, if someone is taught wrong or didn't know about Christ at all, they "may" get a correct oppertunity during the 1000 years when the word is given correctly. Just my thoughts on this. 

And as far as the point that some like to bring forth, what about those who never even heard of Jesus when they died. God knows each and every heart and if there is even a flicker of hope for an unregenerate heart somewhere, He will move heaven and earth to get someone there or by other means to give them a chance to hear the good news, and He does this as easy as you and I can move a chess  pawn one square ahead.

bob>What about those who lived and died before Christ came and they never had the chance to hear about Him? 

 


 

 

 
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