"bob>I dont' think I ever sat thru a complete sermon by Willow Creek, a baptist church I attended and was on the board was secretly sending the pastors to Willow Creek training seminars on how to turn our church into a Willow Creek church. I quit the board and left the church and told everyone what was up. The Sunday morning service started having light hearted plays, secular songs and positive thinking sermons. It reminded me of the Jerry Springer show, let's all get along, I'm okay, your okay."
It's good that you left. To stay, could lead to spiritual starvation and even potentially worse. Our physical bodies must be fed nourishing food and our spirits must also receive nourishing food. Junk food in either instance, leads to sickness and eventual unnecessary suffering and even a possible early death.
bob>>Just to sneak around and do this behind the backs of the church show the pastor will seek any level of deceit to get what he wants. I knew him and his fellow pastor buddies who all went to OBU together and a couple of them thought they were the next Bill Graham, they weren't and couldn't figure out why not. The church is still there 20 years later, but it's just sitting, nothing big happened. I remember while I attended, the pictures of angles, heaven and Jesus vanished along with the crosses on display. One of the big things Willow teaches is that the church should not look like a church, it should look like a shopping mall. Also, the name on the sign "Baptist Church" was changed to "Community Center", all this was done without the members having any say at all. When man runs the church, it gets messed up.
bob>He's very different from his dad, but he's really grown the church. I also have sat down to hear his entire message and just can't do it. His "calling" at the end it pretty good, he does mention Christ, he also big time "name it and claim it", what do you think of that? And he's actually preaching milk, which is better than others are preaching and he's saving people, so I don't want him to stop, but I do want him to preach better, What do you think?
I always enjoyed his dads preaching, and like you, cannot watch Joel for any length of time, usually consisting of a minute or two. tops.
Name it claim it is from Satan and is potentially dangerous, especially to a newer believer.
bob>>The proof is, it doesn't work! What else do you need to prove it's not correct?
I'll have to make it a point to listen to the end of one of his church sermons, since, that's the first time that I've heard he actually evangelizes during his service.
bob>>I just recorded a couple to see if he had some sort of call or not, I couldn't watch the rest and I'm not saying his call is great, it's just that he has one.
However, there is much false efforts at so called "evangelism", from people who themselves are not even saved,
bob>> I hadn't even thought about that... Great point!
and this is clearly evident in so called "Christian" rock concerts, hip hop concerts, and even in some churches, and even though the name of Jesus is mentioned, it's meaningless, because it's another Jesus they present, not the One that will save them, but their false Jesus is designed to have the people follow them, and not the King of kings and the Lord of lords. The alter calls that bring bring them to the alter, are brought about by crafty emotional maneuvering and not at all by the conviction of the Holy Spirit.
bob>>However, the word of God does not go out void, right? Even if it's presented incorrectly.
Hence, we have millions upon millions of people who think they are saved, and on their way to heaven, but, are really not.
bob>>We have always had that, just now more than ever I would say. How does God deal with them on that day? They were mislead, they were trying, they didn't know better. It's kind of like Eve, she was deceived into thinking what she was doing was actually a good thing, so it's not her sin that brought on death, it was the sin of Adam, as he was not deceived, he actually knew what he was doing.