Bible Topics & Bible Studies -  Is the bible from God? (863 views) Notify me whenever anyone posts in this discussion.Subscribe
 
From: Bob (Bobbylee7) DelphiPlus Member Icon Posted by hostNov-15 10:18 AM 
To: Bob (BOBKATZHOST) DelphiPlus Member Icon  (1 of 159) 
 38768.1 

I consider the bible the foundation for the Christian religion and it's the only book from God. Many religions take parts of the bible, but how can man be trusted to just take what he likes or agrees with? If we have the freedom to take parts, we create a religion we like, that's why we have so many religions. What's your stand on the bible? Does man have the knowledge, wisdom and authority to edit the bible to his liking? Do we even need the bible?


 

 
 Reply   Options 

 
From: Bob (BOBKATZHOST) DelphiPlus Member IconNov-15 1:05 PM 
To: Bob (Bobbylee7) DelphiPlus Member Icon  (2 of 159) 
 38768.2 in reply to 38768.1 

<<I consider the bible the foundation for the did not exist Christian religion and it's the only book from God. Many religions take parts of the bible, but how can man be trusted to just take what he likes or agrees with? If we have the freedom to take parts, we create a religion we like, that's why we have so many religions. What's your stand on the bible? Does man have the knowledge, wisdom and authority to edit the bible to his liking? Do we even need the bible?>>

As you already know, I disagree. It is wise of you to break off items from our discussions into separate threads.

I consider Jesus Christ to be the foundation of Christianity. The Bible did not exist when Jesus walked the Earth. The various books that are now in the Old Testament as well as other books did exist separately. The Bible was brought together long after Jesus. Man chose which books to include and exclude. Man translated this newly codified Bible into many languages.

There are many religions because of free agency. Someone sees the Sun rise and set each day. A God must be doing that. Let's call him Apollo. We go to war. Gee there must be a God who controls war. Let's call him Ares. We pray to Ares. He hears us and we win. There is a God called Nike for that.

There is a guy in Ur called Abram. God goes to him and tells him that He is the real deal. Abram believes Him. His family and  community get upset that he does not believe as they do, so he leaves. Abram is also known as the Hebrew. A couple years later, we have the Hebrews who worship the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. So we have the Hebrews and other groups who worship their Gods.

Fast forward a couple years and we get this new guy on the stage who we call Jesus. He does a bunch of cool things and many follow him. The establishment is unhappy and get him killed off. Didn't work, so we get Christianity.

I bit later Christianity splits giving us the Orthodox and RCC. The Orthodox continues to split giving us Greek, Russian, etc.

The RCC does it's thing and some people get upset at what they are doing. Along comes a guy named Luther (not Lex) He codifies what's wrong and gets himself in a world of trouble. He splits off from the RCC. Others see what he did and split off as well We get Protestantism.

In the 1820s a young man named Joseph Smith is confused about religion. One group says, "We are the True Church. You must believe as we do or you are going straight to Hell." Other groups say the same thing. Joseph was quite confused. He decided to ask God who appeared to him as two separate and distinct personages and told him not to join any Church. from there we get the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/pgp/js-h/1?lang=eng

Thus we have many religions.

 

 

 

Bob

 

 

 
From: Bob (Bobbylee7) DelphiPlus Member Icon Posted by hostNov-16 10:28 AM 
To: Bob (BOBKATZHOST) DelphiPlus Member Icon  (3 of 159) 
 38768.3 in reply to 38768.2 

<<I consider the bible the foundation for the did not exist Christian religion and it's the only book from God. Many religions take parts of the bible, but how can man be trusted to just take what he likes or agrees with? If we have the freedom to take parts, we create a religion we like, that's why we have so many religions. What's your stand on the bible? Does man have the knowledge, wisdom and authority to edit the bible to his liking? Do we even need the bible?>>

As you already know, I disagree. It is wise of you to break off items from our discussions into separate threads.

bob>Thanks, I agree, It' an important subject and I wanted others to share in this as well so I "started over" in a new thread as you know. 

I consider Jesus Christ to be the foundation of Christianity. The Bible did not exist when Jesus walked the Earth.

bob>The OT did and He spoke directly from it on many occasions, He accepted the OT and He also wrote it. The NT could not exist during His mission on Earth as it was written about His life and times and about the time there after, the question is the same about the OT and the NT, are they from God. I say yes, if they aren't, then we don't have a foundation for our faith. 

The various books that are now in the Old Testament as well as other books did exist separately. The Bible was brought together long after Jesus. Man chose which books to include and exclude. Man translated this newly codified Bible into many languages.

bob>Man chose at the direction of God. 

There are many religions because of free agency. Someone sees the Sun rise and set each day. A God must be doing that. Let's call him Apollo. We go to war. Gee there must be a God who controls war. Let's call him Ares. We pray to Ares. He hears us and we win. There is a God called Nike for that.

bob>Gentiles had many pagan religions and they didn't understand the basic principles of the Universe so as they created religions/answers they got way off. Man does that, when left to himself, man gets way off.  

There is a guy in Ur called Abram. God goes to him and tells him that He is the real deal. Abram believes Him. His family and  community get upset that he does not believe as they do, so he leaves. Abram is also known as the Hebrew.

bob>Abram wasn't a Jew, he was a righteous man, which God used to lead others, which is how He operates, we see this over and over in the bible, Adam, Noah, Moses and so on. Abram started the Hebrew line of people with his son, who was a miracles as Abram and Sarah were very old in age and not physically able to produce children. 

A couple years later, we have the Hebrews who worship the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. So we have the Hebrews and other groups who worship their Gods.

bob>True, God had tried to lead mankind before, with Adam and so on, but man is hard to lead, so God established the Jewish/Hebrew people He would lead by hand, but they too were hard to lead. 

Fast forward a couple years and we get this new guy on the stage who we call Jesus. He does a bunch of cool things and many follow him. The establishment is unhappy and get him killed off. Didn't work, so we get Christianity.

bob>I wouldn't call Yeshua a "guy", which reminds me of what Josephus said about Him. "This man, Yeshua, if He can be called a man by the great miracles He works" or something like that. He came in the flesh to do for the flesh what the flesh could not do for itself. To say He was extraordinary would be an understatement. 

I bit later Christianity splits giving us the Orthodox and RCC. The Orthodox continues to split giving us Greek, Russian, etc.

bob>The Catholic religion, which came from uniting various pagan religions who were turning to Christ in 325 AD in Nicea. It took over the Christian religion and did much evil and others saw it for what it was and new religions came about in an effort to get it right. 

The RCC does it's thing and some people get upset at what they are doing.

bob>It also shared the leadership and rule of the nation and worked politically with the king, instead of God. The RCC was in it for itself, which is not new to religion. 

Along comes a guy named Luther (not Lex) He codifies what's wrong and gets himself in a world of trouble. He splits off from the RCC. Others see what he did and split off as well We get Protestantism.

bob>Yes, I understand he was trying to fix the RCC, but it wouldn't be fixed. 

In the 1820s a young man named Joseph Smith is confused about religion. One g
...[Message truncated]


 

 

 
From: Bob (BOBKATZHOST) DelphiPlus Member IconNov-16 12:30 PM 
To: Bob (Bobbylee7) DelphiPlus Member Icon  (4 of 159) 
 38768.4 in reply to 38768.3 

<<bob>The OT did and He spoke directly from it on many occasions, He accepted the OT and He also wrote it. The NT could not exist during His mission on Earth as it was written about His life and times and about the time there after, the question is the same about the OT and the NT, are they from God. I say yes, if they aren't, then we don't have a foundation for our faith. >>

I disagree. The Old Testament did not exist when Jesus walked this Earth. The various books did. It was codified sometime after Jesus. The various books of the Bible were not written by God, not one word. It was written by good men, Prophets and such. They wrote of their experiences, their dealings with God, etc. If your foundation is the Bible, you are going in the wrong direction. Your foundation should be Jesus Christ. Do you pray to the Bible or to God or Jesus?

<<bob>Abram wasn't a Jew, he was a righteous man, which God used to lead others, which is how He operates, we see this over and over in the bible, Adam, Noah, Moses and so on. Abram started the Hebrew line of people with his son, who was a miracles as Abram and Sarah were very old in age and not physically able to produce children. >>

Of course Abram was not Jewish. Judaism was named after his grandson, Judah. Abram, later Abraham, had many sons and probably daughters. With Sarai (later Sarah) He had Isaac. Ishmael became the father off the Arabs. Thus both the Jew and the Arab are Hebrew. 

<<bob>True, God had tried to lead mankind before, with Adam and so on, but man is hard to lead, so God established the Jewish/Hebrew people He would lead by hand, but they too were hard to lead. >>

We call these Dispensations. We believe there are 7 Dispensations:

  • Adam.
  • Enoch.
  • Noah.
  • Abraham.
  • Moses.
  • Jesus Christ.
  • Joseph Smith.

 

<<bob>So, the same skepticism you have about the bible you don't have for CJCLDS? Why not? The bible was written by many people over hundreds of years, but Smith's writings you go with without doubt? >>

 

So now we get into my story. Lets go back to the late sixties and early seventies. It was a time of Hippies (yes, even in Kansas) free love and an explosion of religion. I had pretty much had it with Judaism, so I went looking. I went to a few Masses and was put off by the obvious breaking of the Ten Commandments. I walked in and saw all the idols, candles and people praying to these idols. So the RCC was out. I looked at Protestantism but if the root is rotten how can the branches be any good? I looked at the new age, far eastern religions but they were just too weird.

I was living in a dorm that summer. A guy down the hall brought me a Book of Mormon. I looked through it. It was interesting. Someone wrote in a guide. It told me to read this passage and then skip to another passage. What I read was logical, it made sense. He brought me to Church. Again, interesting. I met a guy who was a Chaplin's Assistant at Fort Riley. We hooked up and he showed me the Church explaining all that was confusing. One night he told me that if I wanted to know if the Church were true, I should ask the question that Joseph asked. That night I asked God, in sincere prayer, which Church was true. The next morning I called the Missionaries and told them that I wanted to be Baptized. If the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is true, then Joseph Smith is a Prophet. If Joseph Smith is a Prophet then The Book of Mormon is true. The revelations cascaded from there.

 

Bob

 

 

 
From: Bob (Bobbylee7) DelphiPlus Member Icon Posted by hostNov-19 9:09 AM 
To: Bob (BOBKATZHOST) DelphiPlus Member Icon  (5 of 159) 
 38768.5 in reply to 38768.4 

<<bob>The OT did and He spoke directly from it on many occasions, He accepted the OT and He also wrote it. The NT could not exist during His mission on Earth as it was written about His life and times and about the time there after, the question is the same about the OT and the NT, are they from God. I say yes, if they aren't, then we don't have a foundation for our faith. >>

I disagree. The Old Testament did not exist when Jesus walked this Earth. The various books did. It was codified sometime after Jesus.

bob>They were and are known as the "Scrolls" as you well know. As a Rabbi, Christ was very knowledgeable of Jewish works. 

The various books of the Bible were not written by God, not one word. It was written by good men, Prophets and such. They wrote of their experiences, their dealings with God, etc. If your foundation is the Bible, you are going in the wrong direction. Your foundation should be Jesus Christ. Do you pray to the Bible or to God or Jesus?

bob> I pray to God, just as Christ showed us to do. So what is the foundation of your faith? 

<<bob>True, God had tried to lead mankind before, with Adam and so on, but man is hard to lead, so God established the Jewish/Hebrew people He would lead by hand, but they too were hard to lead. >>

We call these Dispensations. We believe there are 7 Dispensations: then you agree with me, I don't consider Smith as you know. 

  • Adam.
  • Enoch.
  • Noah.
  • Abraham.
  • Moses.
  • Jesus Christ.
  • Joseph Smith.

 

<<bob>So, the same skepticism you have about the bible you don't have for CJCLDS? Why not? The bible was written by many people over hundreds of years, but Smith's writings you go with without doubt? >>

 

So now we get into my story. Lets go back to the late sixties and early seventies. It was a time of Hippies (yes, even in Kansas) free love and an explosion of religion. I had pretty much had it with Judaism, so I went looking. I went to a few Masses and was put off by the obvious breaking of the Ten Commandments. I walked in and saw all the idols, candles and people praying to these idols. So the RCC was out. I looked at Protestantism but if the root is rotten how can the branches be any good? I looked at the new age, far eastern religions but they were just too weird.

I was living in a dorm that summer. A guy down the hall brought me a Book of Mormon. I looked through it. It was interesting. Someone wrote in a guide. It told me to read this passage and then skip to another passage. What I read was logical, it made sense. He brought me to Church. Again, interesting. I met a guy who was a Chaplin's Assistant at Fort Riley. We hooked up and he showed me the Church explaining all that was confusing. One night he told me that if I wanted to know if the Church were true, I should ask the question that Joseph asked. That night I asked God, in sincere prayer, which Church was true. The next morning I called the Missionaries and told them that I wanted to be Baptized. If the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is true, then Joseph Smith is a Prophet. If Joseph Smith is a Prophet then The Book of Mormon is true. The revelations cascaded from there.

bob>Thanks for sharing, I guess the only book you consider from God is Smith's book, right? Moses works? Who do you pray to? Did Smith work miracles, is he considered to have had the powers of the apostles? 


 

 

 
From: Bob (BOBKATZHOST) DelphiPlus Member IconNov-19 12:07 PM 
To: Bob (Bobbylee7) DelphiPlus Member Icon  (6 of 159) 
 38768.6 in reply to 38768.5 

<<bob>They were and are known as the "Scrolls" as you well know. As a Rabbi, Christ was very knowledgeable of Jewish works. >>

You are making assumptions again. I did not know that the were known as the "Scrolls". Thank you for this information.

A Rabbi is a Teacher. Jesus taught. A Rabbi was not a Religious Leader until after the destruction of the Temple around 70CE.  At that point the Rabbis usurped the Authority of the Levite.

<<bob> I pray to God, just as Christ showed us to do. So what is the foundation of your faith? >>

If the Bible is the foundation of your faith why don't you pray to the Bible? My foundation is The Father and Jesus Christ. I pray to the Father.

<<bob>Thanks for sharing, I guess the only book you consider from God is Smith's book, right? Moses works? Who do you pray to? Did Smith work miracles, is he considered to have had the powers of the apostles? >>

My Pleasure

Wrong. We have 4 Books of Scripture:

  • The Bible - a combination of books written by Prophets and others, covering some of God's dealings with mankind in the Eastern Hemisphere
  • The Book of Mormon - a combination of books written by Prophets and others, covering some of God's dealings with mankind in the Western Hemisphere. Much of the book was abridged by the Prophet Mormon.
  • The Doctrine and Covenants - Modern Revelation written by Prophets
  • The Pearl of Great Price - Miscellaneous Scripture written/amended by the Prophet Joseph Smith

I expect more books of Scripture to be revealed in the future. As a Church we have a 4 year cycle of study:

  • The Old Testament - The study for this year
  • The New Testament - The study for Next year
  • The Book of Mormon - The study for last year
  • Church History

You might want to take at this speaking of Joseph Smith. There are other like articles:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracles_of_Joseph_Smith

 

 

Bob

 

 

 
From: Bob (Bobbylee7) DelphiPlus Member Icon Posted by hostNov-19 2:07 PM 
To: Bob (BOBKATZHOST) DelphiPlus Member Icon  (7 of 159) 
 38768.7 in reply to 38768.6 

<<bob>They were and are known as the "Scrolls" as you well know. As a Rabbi, Christ was very knowledgeable of Jewish works. >>

You are making assumptions again. I did not know that the were known as the "Scrolls". Thank you for this information.

bob>We see them mentioned as "scrolls" in the OT and NT and today as well. The Jews view them as very holy and a special person/scribe makes copies by hand which take a very long time. 

A Rabbi is a Teacher. Jesus taught. A Rabbi was not a Religious Leader until after the destruction of the Temple around 70CE.  At that point the Rabbis usurped the Authority of the Levite.

bob>A Rabbi was trained and was a teacher, as your saying. One could not become a Rabbi until they were 30 and when Christ went to John and was baptized it was His 30th birthday, during the "tabernacles", and as your saying, once the temple was gone the Priests didn't have a temple to do their thing. 

<<bob> I pray to God, just as Christ showed us to do. So what is the foundation of your faith? >>

If the Bible is the foundation of your faith why don't you pray to the Bible?

bob>The purpose of the bible is to show the world Yeshua. 

My foundation is The Father and Jesus Christ. I pray to the Father.

<<bob>Thanks for sharing, I guess the only book you consider from God is Smith's book, right? Moses works? Who do you pray to? Did Smith work miracles, is he considered to have had the powers of the apostles? >>

My Pleasure

Wrong. We have 4 Books of Scripture:

  • The Bible - a combination of books written by Prophets and others, covering some of God's dealings with mankind in the Eastern Hemisphere

bob>Not the OT NT bible, but a different book? 

  • The Book of Mormon - a combination of books written by Prophets and others, covering some of God's dealings with mankind in the Western Hemisphere. Much of the book was abridged by the Prophet Mormon.

bob>Do you consider these books written at the direction of God? 

  • The Doctrine and Covenants - Modern Revelation written by Prophets
  • The Pearl of Great Price - Miscellaneous Scripture written/amended by the Prophet Joseph Smith

I expect more books of Scripture to be revealed in the future. As a Church we have a 4 year cycle of study:

  • The Old Testament - The study for this year
  • The New Testament - The study for Next year
  • The Book of Mormon - The study for last year
  • Church History

bob>Why study the bible when your religion considers a work by men and not God? 

You might want to take at this speaking of Joseph Smith. There are other like articles:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracles_of_Joseph_Smith


 

 

 
From: Bob (BOBKATZHOST) DelphiPlus Member IconNov-19 7:22 PM 
To: Bob (Bobbylee7) DelphiPlus Member Icon  (8 of 159) 
 38768.8 in reply to 38768.7 

<<bob>A Rabbi was trained and was a teacher, as your saying. One could not become a Rabbi until they were 30 and when Christ went to John and was baptized it was His 30th birthday, during the "tabernacles", and as your saying, once the temple was gone the Priests didn't have a temple to do their thing. >>

I am not aware that Jesus was trained to be a teacher. He was taught by his parents. He may have attended the Yeshiva of that time. I know He was trained by His Heavenly Father.

<<bob>The purpose of the bible is to show the world Yeshua.>>

How do you know? Is the purpose of the Bible, documented within the Bible?

<<bob>Not the OT NT bible, but a different book? >>

Yes the OT/NT Bible. In the English speaking world we use the KJV.

<<bob>Do you consider these books written at the direction of God?>>

Most of the Books of the Bible were not written at the direction of God. They mostly tell of God's dealings of man. The same is true of the other revealed scripture. The Book of Ezekiel may be the exception.

<<bob>Why study the bible when your religion considers a work by men and not God? >>

All scripture was written by man, not God. The Bible, Book of Mormon, etc was written by man not God. Good man (mostly). Prophets of God and others wrote the Scriptures.

 

 

Bob

 

  • Edited November 19, 2018 7:27 pm  by  Bob (BOBKATZHOST)
 

 
From: Bob (Bobbylee7) DelphiPlus Member Icon Posted by hostNov-20 9:48 AM 
To: Bob (BOBKATZHOST) DelphiPlus Member Icon  (9 of 159) 
 38768.9 in reply to 38768.8 

<<bob>A Rabbi was trained and was a teacher, as your saying. One could not become a Rabbi until they were 30 and when Christ went to John and was baptized it was His 30th birthday, during the "tabernacles", and as your saying, once the temple was gone the Priests didn't have a temple to do their thing. >>

I am not aware that Jesus was trained to be a teacher. He was taught by his parents. He may have attended the Yeshiva of that time. I know He was trained by His Heavenly Father.

bob>One couldn't just call themselves a rabbi. 

<<bob>The purpose of the bible is to show the world Yeshua.>>

How do you know? Is the purpose of the Bible, documented within the Bible?

bob>The NT is concealed in the OT and the OT revealed in the NT, bible studies prove this out. 

<<bob>Not the OT NT bible, but a different book? >>

Yes the OT/NT Bible. In the English speaking world we use the KJV.

bob>I start my bible studies with the KJV and then go into the original languages and then to various scholars and experts. 

<<bob>Do you consider these books written at the direction of God?>>

Most of the Books of the Bible were not written at the direction of God. They mostly tell of God's dealings of man. The same is true of the other revealed scripture. The Book of Ezekiel may be the exception.

bob>Which books do you think are from God? What makes Ezekiel an exception? 

<<bob>Why study the bible when your religion considers a work by men and not God? >>

All scripture was written by man, not God.

bob>Ezekiel? 

The Bible, Book of Mormon, etc was written by man not God. Good man (mostly). Prophets of God and others wrote the Scriptures.

bob>So, it should be read with skepticism as with all books by man. How do you know what parts are true/correct?


 

 

 
From: Bob (BOBKATZHOST) DelphiPlus Member IconNov-20 12:01 PM 
To: Bob (Bobbylee7) DelphiPlus Member Icon  (10 of 159) 
 38768.10 in reply to 38768.9 

<<bob>One couldn't just call themselves a rabbi. >>

I am unaware of Jesus ever calling himself a Rabbi. Others called him that

<<bob>The NT is concealed in the OT and the OT revealed in the NT, bible studies prove this out. >>

Are you saying that this is the purpose of the Bible? I think not.

<<bob>I start my bible studies with the KJV and then go into the original languages and then to various scholars and experts.>>

Do you really read and understand Ancient Hebrew and Greek or do you what other people write about the ancient scripture. If you read what others think, you are getting their slant, their bias. Still we do not have the autograph of the various books that comprise the Bible. Who knows what bias was put there. Reading what others think is good and instructive but reading the Scriptures for yourself and listening to what the Holy Ghost tells you is better.

<<bob>Which books do you think are from God? What makes Ezekiel an exception? >>

All scripture was written by man, much inspired by God. In Ezekiel I seem to remember reading God telling him to write this, write that, etc.

<<bob>So, it should be read with skepticism as with all books by man. How do you know what parts are true/correct?>>

Of course. In order to determine what is true and what is not you need to listen to the whisperings of the Holy Ghost who will guide you.  

 

Bob

 

 

 
Navigate this discussion: 1-10 11-20 21-30 ... 131-140 141-150 151-159
Adjust text size:

Welcome, guest! Get more out of Delphi Forums by logging in.

New to Delphi Forums? You can log in with your Facebook, Twitter, or Google account or use the New Member Login option and log in with any email address.

Home | Help | Forums | Chat | Blogs | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service
© Delphi Forums LLC All rights reserved.