<<I consider the bible the foundation for the did not exist Christian religion and it's the only book from God. Many religions take parts of the bible, but how can man be trusted to just take what he likes or agrees with? If we have the freedom to take parts, we create a religion we like, that's why we have so many religions. What's your stand on the bible? Does man have the knowledge, wisdom and authority to edit the bible to his liking? Do we even need the bible?>>
As you already know, I disagree. It is wise of you to break off items from our discussions into separate threads.
bob>Thanks, I agree, It' an important subject and I wanted others to share in this as well so I "started over" in a new thread as you know.
I consider Jesus Christ to be the foundation of Christianity. The Bible did not exist when Jesus walked the Earth.
bob>The OT did and He spoke directly from it on many occasions, He accepted the OT and He also wrote it. The NT could not exist during His mission on Earth as it was written about His life and times and about the time there after, the question is the same about the OT and the NT, are they from God. I say yes, if they aren't, then we don't have a foundation for our faith.
The various books that are now in the Old Testament as well as other books did exist separately. The Bible was brought together long after Jesus. Man chose which books to include and exclude. Man translated this newly codified Bible into many languages.
bob>Man chose at the direction of God.
There are many religions because of free agency. Someone sees the Sun rise and set each day. A God must be doing that. Let's call him Apollo. We go to war. Gee there must be a God who controls war. Let's call him Ares. We pray to Ares. He hears us and we win. There is a God called Nike for that.
bob>Gentiles had many pagan religions and they didn't understand the basic principles of the Universe so as they created religions/answers they got way off. Man does that, when left to himself, man gets way off.
There is a guy in Ur called Abram. God goes to him and tells him that He is the real deal. Abram believes Him. His family and community get upset that he does not believe as they do, so he leaves. Abram is also known as the Hebrew.
bob>Abram wasn't a Jew, he was a righteous man, which God used to lead others, which is how He operates, we see this over and over in the bible, Adam, Noah, Moses and so on. Abram started the Hebrew line of people with his son, who was a miracles as Abram and Sarah were very old in age and not physically able to produce children.
A couple years later, we have the Hebrews who worship the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. So we have the Hebrews and other groups who worship their Gods.
bob>True, God had tried to lead mankind before, with Adam and so on, but man is hard to lead, so God established the Jewish/Hebrew people He would lead by hand, but they too were hard to lead.
Fast forward a couple years and we get this new guy on the stage who we call Jesus. He does a bunch of cool things and many follow him. The establishment is unhappy and get him killed off. Didn't work, so we get Christianity.
bob>I wouldn't call Yeshua a "guy", which reminds me of what Josephus said about Him. "This man, Yeshua, if He can be called a man by the great miracles He works" or something like that. He came in the flesh to do for the flesh what the flesh could not do for itself. To say He was extraordinary would be an understatement.
I bit later Christianity splits giving us the Orthodox and RCC. The Orthodox continues to split giving us Greek, Russian, etc.
bob>The Catholic religion, which came from uniting various pagan religions who were turning to Christ in 325 AD in Nicea. It took over the Christian religion and did much evil and others saw it for what it was and new religions came about in an effort to get it right.
The RCC does it's thing and some people get upset at what they are doing.
bob>It also shared the leadership and rule of the nation and worked politically with the king, instead of God. The RCC was in it for itself, which is not new to religion.
Along comes a guy named Luther (not Lex) He codifies what's wrong and gets himself in a world of trouble. He splits off from the RCC. Others see what he did and split off as well We get Protestantism.
bob>Yes, I understand he was trying to fix the RCC, but it wouldn't be fixed.
In the 1820s a young man named Joseph Smith is confused about religion. One g