Bible Topics & Bible Studies -  God's Desire is that All Men be Saved! (494 views) Notify me whenever anyone posts in this discussion.Subscribe
 
From: GISMYSJan-15 3:30 PM 
To: All  (1 of 48) 
 40219.1 
Believe God's Word!!   
God Would Have ALL Men to be Saved!!
 
2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

1Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. == A stake in the false teaching Calvinism's heart!
 
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From: Ginger (TGANNON) DelphiPlus Member IconJan-15 3:44 PM 
To: GISMYS  (2 of 48) 
 40219.2 in reply to 40219.1 

:)

 

 

 

     

Psalm119:105 "Your word is a lamp to my feet and a light for my path"

 

 
From: Bob (Bobbylee7) DelphiPlus Member Icon Posted by hostJan-15 4:06 PM 
To: GISMYS  (3 of 48) 
 40219.3 in reply to 40219.1 
Believe God's Word!!   
God Would Have ALL Men to be Saved!!
 
2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

1Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. == A stake in the false teaching Calvinism's heart!\
 
bob>Praise God! I sat through a calvinist preaching of John 3:16, it was painful and ridiculous! 


 

 

 
From: Waite_0 (Waite_01)Jan-21 9:24 AM 
To: GISMYS  (4 of 48) 
 40219.4 in reply to 40219.1 
GISMYS said...

 

Believe God's Word!!   
God Would Have ALL Men to be Saved!!
 
2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

1Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. == A stake in the false teaching Calvinism's heart!

 

How does it apply to reproving Calvinism again? 

Not that I agree with everything Calvinism, thus I am not a Calvinist. 

Even Calvin did not know Jesus when he supported the execution of a heretic which John 16:1-3 proves that Calvin did not know Jesus when he had done that.  It does not mean he was not saved, but any work that denies Him, is the same as denying Him verbally. Unless he repented before his deathbed, it doesn't look good for him to be of the firstfruit of the resurrection, but to be "disqualified" and thus a reprobate to left behind to be resurrected after the great tribulation with former believers as a vessel unto dishonor in His House.

John 16:1These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended. They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service. And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me.

Titus 1:16 
...[Message truncated]

 

 
From: Bob (Bobbylee7) DelphiPlus Member Icon Posted by hostJan-21 10:19 AM 
To: Waite_0 (Waite_01)  (5 of 48) 
 40219.5 in reply to 40219.4 

How does it apply to reproving Calvinism again? 

bob>God wants ALL to come, calvinsim says only a very few can come. 

Not that I agree with everything Calvinism, thus I am not a Calvinist. 

Even Calvin did not know Jesus when he supported the execution of a heretic which John 16:1-3 proves that Calvin did not know Jesus when he had done that.

bob>Calvin did not create calvinism he just put his name on it, he sought power, he put a man to death for not accepting it, calvin was on a power trip. 

  It does not mean he was not saved, but any work that denies Him, is the same as denying Him verbally. Unless he repented before his deathbed, it doesn't look good for him to be of the firstfruit of the resurrection, but to be "disqualified" and thus a reprobate to left behind to be resurrected after the great tribulation with former believers as a vessel unto dishonor in His House.

bob>I'm not a fan of deathbed conversions, those who are sold on it claim hitler may have been saved as he shot himself. the problem with calinism is it takes the few predestined verses in the bible and thinks everyone who become saved is predestined to be saved before they are born. There are a very few predestined in the bible to be saved, Abraham, Moses, David, Peter and a few others, they were predestined to SERVE, not to be SAVED... Predestination is about SERVING God to reach others. 


 

 

 
From: Waite_0 (Waite_01)Jan-21 11:40 AM 
To: Bob (Bobbylee7) DelphiPlus Member Icon  (6 of 48) 
 40219.6 in reply to 40219.5 

bob>God wants ALL to come, calvinsim says only a very few can come.

I think both sides on that issue is not being understood clearly by the other in regards to other truths in scripture.  Calvinism may see your statement that God wants all to come to be saved and yet clearly not every one is being saved when they hear the gospel and so that's making God look like no matter what He wants, He can't always get what He wants.  So I believe the word desire is being misinterpreted or simply misunderstood by both sides when each side present their belief.

I believe God can save everybody and that is His desire to save everybody, but John 3:18-21 explains why God doesn't reveal His Son to everybody and that is because He sees that they love doing evil rather than come to the light so they can turn from them.  Only the Father can draw men unto the Son ( John 6:44 ) Only the Father can hide the truth from the prudent and the wise of this world and yet reveal them unto babes to believe in His Son ( Matthew 11:25-27 )  That is why our believing in Jesus is the work of God Himself ( John 3:18-21 again )  Obviously, Revelation does testify to some of humanity going into the lake of fire.  Revelation 21:8

bob>I'm not a fan of deathbed conversions, those who are sold on it claim hitler may have been saved as he shot himself. the problem with calinism is it takes the few predestined verses in the bible and thinks everyone who become saved is predestined to be saved before they are born. There are a very few predestined in the bible to be saved, Abraham, Moses, David, Peter and a few others, they were predestined to SERVE, not to be SAVED... Predestination is about SERVING God to reach others. 

I doubt Hitler will be of the firstfruit of the resurrection, seeing how he ended his life in sin by killing himself as that is hard to repent from, but we may be surprised if he is one of the vessels unto dishonor.  We have to wait and see if he was really a believer at all, who obviously did not abide in His words to follow Him.

But Hitler is not a valid reason to discount deathbed conversations.  anyone courting it, should realize that death can strike at any moment, leaving no time for deathbed conversion so they should call on the name of the Lord now to be saved.

Is God a Respecter of person?  No.  So if He predestined those you listed to be saved, then He can predestined all the ones He has chosen to be saved.  In Matthew 10:1-16, we see that among those saved, some will go astray.  There is a flock that follows His voice and then there is a flock that follows a stranger's voice thus not of the fold that followed His voice, and yet He said He must bring them as they will be made of the one fold to literally hear His voice as many left behind unrepentant saints will be resurrected after the great tribulation to serve the King of kings of  Whom they will see and hear His voice clearly to lead the generations following in the millennial reign of Christ on earth

So the only reason He will bring them is because those that follow Him are His sheep for Him to call them sheep to make then hear His voice to follow Him and be of the one fold and one shepherd.  So does that mean He predestined the ones to go astray to be vessels unto dishonor in His House?  Apparently, He foreseen that some will go astray by ignoring His words and thus building their houses on sand ( Matthew 7:13-27 )  Some may say God is unfair, but He can foresee and know..

Romans 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. 17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. 18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. 19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
...[Message truncated]

 

 
From: Bob (Bobbylee7) DelphiPlus Member Icon Posted by hostJan-22 10:02 AM 
To: Waite_0 (Waite_01)  (7 of 48) 
 40219.7 in reply to 40219.6 

bob>God wants ALL to come, calvinsim says only a very few can come.

I think both sides on that issue is not being understood clearly by the other in regards to other truths in scripture.  Calvinism may see your statement that God wants all to come to be saved and yet clearly not every one is being saved when they hear the gospel and so that's making God look like no matter what He wants, He can't always get what He wants.  So I believe the word desire is being misinterpreted or simply misunderstood by both sides when each side present their belief.

bob>Calvinism says everyone CAN"T be saved, as one has to be predestined before they are born to be saved or not and NOTHING one does in this life can ever change their predestination. It has a fundamental flaw in that it does not know a few were predestined to SERVE, not to be saved. 

I believe God can save everybody and that is His desire to save everybody,

bob>Then you just debunked Calvinism, which is the right thing to do! 

but John 3:18-21 explains why God doesn't reveal His Son to everybody and that is because He sees that they love doing evil rather than come to the light so they can turn from them.  Only the Father can draw men unto the Son ( John 6:44 ) Only the Father can hide the truth from the prudent and the wise of this world and yet reveal them unto babes to believe in His Son ( Matthew 11:25-27 )  That is why our believing in Jesus is the work of God Himself ( John 3:18-21 again )  Obviously, Revelation does testify to some of humanity going into the lake of fire.  Revelation 21:8

bob>God wants ALL to come, you can't get away from that! God gave each of us the freewill do follow Him or reject Him, it's our call. 

bob>I'm not a fan of deathbed conversions, those who are sold on it claim hitler may have been saved as he shot himself. the problem with calinism is it takes the few predestined verses in the bible and thinks everyone who become saved is predestined to be saved before they are born. There are a very few predestined in the bible to be saved, Abraham, Moses, David, Peter and a few others, they were predestined to SERVE, not to be SAVED... Predestination is about SERVING God to reach others. 

I doubt Hitler will be of the firstfruit of the resurrection,

bob>I KNOW hitler won't be saved!!! Why don't you that? If we have confusion about hitler, we need to remember confusion is not from God. 

seeing how he ended his life in sin by killing himself as that is hard to repent from, but we may be surprised if he is one of the vessels unto dishonor.  We have to wait and see if he was really a believer at all, who obviously did not abide in His words to follow Him.

bob>Hitler was pure evil, even to his own German people, the bible speaks of a reprobate heart/mind, that's hitler!!!

But Hitler is not a valid reason to discount deathbed conversations.  anyone courting it, should realize that death can strike at any moment, leaving no time for deathbed conversion so they should call on the name of the Lord now to be saved.

Is God a Respecter of person?  No.  So if He predestined those you listed to be saved,

bob>Predestined to SERVE, not to be saved!! David speaks of having the Holy Spirit in the womb with him, David was predestined to SERVE God, to lead others to God. 

 


 

 

 
From: Waite_0 (Waite_01)Jan-22 3:56 PM 
To: Bob (Bobbylee7) DelphiPlus Member Icon  (8 of 48) 
 40219.8 in reply to 40219.7 

bob>God wants ALL to come, calvinsim says only a very few can come.

Are you citing a direct quote or are you citing what you think they are saying?

bob>Calvinism says everyone CAN"T be saved, as one has to be predestined before they are born to be saved or not and NOTHING one does in this life can ever change their predestination. It has a fundamental flaw in that it does not know a few were predestined to SERVE, not to be saved. 

Again, is that a direct quote from Calvinism or is that a summary or an assumption on their points that you have contention with, mainly with predestination?  If you can cite a link to that "quote", please do.

bob>Then you just debunked Calvinism, which is the right thing to do! 

Cutting off from my quote is an example of not getting the whole point of my view which is why I have to wonder if you are doing the same with Calvinism.  I can disprove several points in regards to T.U.L.I.P. but that is not saying I can disprove everything Calvinism presents. Some are of the truth, but some are not.  You and I have to prove everything by the scripture.  We can't ignore certain section of scripture because we do not like what He says because it does not align with our present beliefs.

It's like this,  taking a verse like Jesus testifying to the Father as being "My God.." from which some attributed that to mean that Jesus is not God is shortsighted.  We can find Jesus saying He is God as the God men had seen in the O.T. before Jesus became incarnated as written about by Moses in John 5:39-40 & 46-47 and He referring to having met Abraham in His day in John 8:56-59 for which He almost got stoned by the Jews for saying that He was that Lord, is how we are to apply that scripture earlier towards the truth that Jesus is referring to His higher authority for why He is called Father and thus is "My God, but that in no way negates His own deity at all.  Indeed, when asked by the high priest if He was the Son of the living God, hence God, that was why He was crucified for He confirmed that truth and it was why they had perceived Him as committing blasphemy.  Matthew 26:63-65

Anyway.. I believe the whole thing of our conversation is hinged on the subject of free will.  So do entertain the possibility that because of the gap theory in regards to creation week, you are not seeing His words in regards to free will.  So hopefully, we can address that topic in the next post to keep this one short rather than a lengthy novel for you to read.

 

 
From: Waite_0 (Waite_01)Jan-22 4:13 PM 
To: Bob (Bobbylee7) DelphiPlus Member Icon  (9 of 48) 
 40219.9 in reply to 40219.7 

bob>God wants ALL to come, you can't get away from that! God gave each of us the freewill do follow Him or reject Him, it's our call. 

But if God wants all to come then how can we all come when it is up to our free will?  That free will does not necessarily testify of God wanting all to come when obviously not everyone comes. 

So let us talk about free will.  How much power is there in that free will for man to come to God by?

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

How about our ability to see the truth to believe in the Son to be saved?

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. 27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Why does the Father reveal and draw some to the Son and not others?

Matthew 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

So our believing in Him is a work of God Himself because the Father can see or foresees who loves their evil deeds rather than come to the Light to have their evil deeds reproved from them so as not to reveal His Son to them.

Now where is the power of man's free will in all of that?  So man is not able to see the truth nor come to the Son unless the father draws them.  An example of Him leading someone not to preach the gospel in a certain area in that time period.

Acts 16:Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia, After they were come to Mysia, they assayed to go into Bithynia: but the Spirit suffered them not.
...[Message truncated]

 

 
From: GISMYSJan-22 5:45 PM 
To: Waite_0 (Waite_01)  (10 of 48) 
 40219.10 in reply to 40219.9 

PTL. God does draw ALL to Himself!! Accept His love, mercy, forgiveness, and gift of salvation or reject Him = your choice!
Timothy 2;4 God==desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

 

 
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